(PROOF) That NA KA can make 200CHP on $1000
02-09-2006, 07:54 PM
#1
(PROOF) That NA KA can make 200CHP on $1000
Well it's been over a year since I last did the thread on how to power your KA24de for under $1000. At the time I had little resources and no proof to back up my finding's. Now it is proven!!!!
Here is a list of parts that are sourced that it will take to guarantee and prove these numbers.
1st open the exhaust. Stock exhaust comes in 1.75" in diameter, that is horrible flow for the KA, and technically will keep the engine slow. So lets look at exhaust modifications.
An OBX header although not the best header is efficient at a cost at $200. Shipping charges are at purchasers discretion there are stores where you live that sell them for that price. If you find something more affordable I don't care, but I do know that pacesetters are even cheaper. Just stay away from the 4-1 combination headers, KA's love a 4-2-1 design, shows the smallest drop in what is called "dyno dipping", where a portion of the power band losses power to scavaging indifferences to fuel dumping......
Second look for a CAT back exhaust, I've found them cheap on Ebay for about $200, (name brands don't count here folks), again at your discretion if you want a name brand, but it doesn't matter when it comes to performance your just looking for mandrel bent larger diameter piping.
I am not adding to the controversy of 2.5" over a 3" exhaust system, both will prove to show gains, although for sound and low end power I chose 2.5". Don't start this into a debate that will overall be worthless to me, if you like 3" then get it (I don't care, it's your money)....
So total spent on exhaust system was $400. Lets move on.
Now it's time to pull off some over weight inertia. Aluminum pulley's are efficient at $60 from OBX, or Megan racing (yes thats right folk's I said Megan racing, especially after all the shiat I talk about them). I happen to purchase mine for $40 so you might be able to find one for a good deal. Does an aluminum pulley affect dampening? The answer is NO. KAE and DE do not come with a dampener ( they are low RPM rev engines and useless for having such a large non harmonic half weighted crank). So pulleys are fine.
Now of great importance is engine management. This is were the big numbers come into play for HP numbers. For $300 OBD1 s13 owners can utilize BikiRom and make there own ecu tunes. Even reprogram for any add on there after. It is a daughter board that is saudered into place and with your own programming is a direct plug and play still using the stock OEM mother board (strictly and only for OBD1 KA24de ECU's). Although NEMEGUERO of zilvia is utilizing his OBD2 s14 KA24det with an OBD1 Biki rom to set his MAPS, (it can be used rewiring the harness although emissions won't be effective.
An alternative route to also make these numbers are through the SAFC and manually advancing the timing at the distributor. (this mod is not as effective on OBD2 engines/ecu combinations, but works to a full advantage on OBD1 engine/ecu combinations).
With a new tune higher octane fuels can be used and actually change response to the knock sensor to increase timing and fuel dumping. The dyno that I am going to show utilized 104octane, although I find it to be unnecessary since the KA runs a compression at under 9.5:1....96octane will work fine to achieve these numbers. This dyno used all the modifications I just stated....
Now this is direct power at the wheels I was here to prove numbers at the crank. If you break down the 26% (32hp stock loss) degradation loss that the KA transmission and power steering pump makes that leaves you at about HP at the flywheel. So total spent was $760.00 plus or minus a few dollars and these are do it your self mods. Devious KA (Gabe Z) of NICO can sell you a 1 time tune to achieve these numbers for $100, do not go through JWT I do not advise it for the price, and Gabe can sell you a much more aggressive tune......... So for those doing a 1 time tune the cost it now $860 plus or minus what ever your shipping charges. So if you didn't notice I didn't add a intake or filter which would put you at 4 more HP. Or a high flow CAT that would add another 5HP for about $120 ( I got my CATCO for $50 and welded my own flanges). That my friends puts you at 215HP at the crank and 1 HP less than the sr20det swap. So is the KA still worth achievable numbers..... YES
This is the set up that will give you the same power to the wheel as an sr20det boosted at 7PSI. At the wheels the SR makes these numbers with no modifications or additional boosting.
So now allowing room to play with your finances there is room for bigger numbers and internal modifications.
Effective alternatives are crank scrapers they actually kill harmonic disturbances and allow the crank to rev easier, (prevent oil from misting and spraying through out the engine, this method actually cools engine oil temperatures when modified with a windage tray which you can purchase for about $110 from Ishihara and Johnson crank scrapers......
As we all know there are free mods as well OBD and OBD1 KA's can remove the SCV's for an easy 6HP gaind to the wheels.
Also the KA coolant bypass which I don't think is anything significant accept for about fraction of a donkey.
Does advanced timing work??? Not really by a modification by itself, not unless you have retuned the ecu and/or tuned the cams as well. So for those that haven't tuned properly you are just wasting fuel. Just keep timing at the distributor set at 20BTDC, or unless a piggy back (SAFC and wide band) is used to adjust the right A/F ratio for the timing adjustments...
Are cams worth it? for the price JWT sells there cams for...Fu$k NO.
How do I know most of this...
Now can I back up these dyno's??? Yes with a Dyno of my own using 95Octane and stock timing.
(UPDATE) PDM racing now broke the new dyno record with the same mods this is one year later from the start of this thread...
Here is a list of parts that are sourced that it will take to guarantee and prove these numbers.
1st open the exhaust. Stock exhaust comes in 1.75" in diameter, that is horrible flow for the KA, and technically will keep the engine slow. So lets look at exhaust modifications.
An OBX header although not the best header is efficient at a cost at $200. Shipping charges are at purchasers discretion there are stores where you live that sell them for that price. If you find something more affordable I don't care, but I do know that pacesetters are even cheaper. Just stay away from the 4-1 combination headers, KA's love a 4-2-1 design, shows the smallest drop in what is called "dyno dipping", where a portion of the power band losses power to scavaging indifferences to fuel dumping......
Second look for a CAT back exhaust, I've found them cheap on Ebay for about $200, (name brands don't count here folks), again at your discretion if you want a name brand, but it doesn't matter when it comes to performance your just looking for mandrel bent larger diameter piping.
I am not adding to the controversy of 2.5" over a 3" exhaust system, both will prove to show gains, although for sound and low end power I chose 2.5". Don't start this into a debate that will overall be worthless to me, if you like 3" then get it (I don't care, it's your money)....
So total spent on exhaust system was $400. Lets move on.
Now it's time to pull off some over weight inertia. Aluminum pulley's are efficient at $60 from OBX, or Megan racing (yes thats right folk's I said Megan racing, especially after all the shiat I talk about them). I happen to purchase mine for $40 so you might be able to find one for a good deal. Does an aluminum pulley affect dampening? The answer is NO. KAE and DE do not come with a dampener ( they are low RPM rev engines and useless for having such a large non harmonic half weighted crank). So pulleys are fine.
Now of great importance is engine management. This is were the big numbers come into play for HP numbers. For $300 OBD1 s13 owners can utilize BikiRom and make there own ecu tunes. Even reprogram for any add on there after. It is a daughter board that is saudered into place and with your own programming is a direct plug and play still using the stock OEM mother board (strictly and only for OBD1 KA24de ECU's). Although NEMEGUERO of zilvia is utilizing his OBD2 s14 KA24det with an OBD1 Biki rom to set his MAPS, (it can be used rewiring the harness although emissions won't be effective.
An alternative route to also make these numbers are through the SAFC and manually advancing the timing at the distributor. (this mod is not as effective on OBD2 engines/ecu combinations, but works to a full advantage on OBD1 engine/ecu combinations).
With a new tune higher octane fuels can be used and actually change response to the knock sensor to increase timing and fuel dumping. The dyno that I am going to show utilized 104octane, although I find it to be unnecessary since the KA runs a compression at under 9.5:1....96octane will work fine to achieve these numbers. This dyno used all the modifications I just stated....
Now this is direct power at the wheels I was here to prove numbers at the crank. If you break down the 26% (32hp stock loss) degradation loss that the KA transmission and power steering pump makes that leaves you at about HP at the flywheel. So total spent was $760.00 plus or minus a few dollars and these are do it your self mods. Devious KA (Gabe Z) of NICO can sell you a 1 time tune to achieve these numbers for $100, do not go through JWT I do not advise it for the price, and Gabe can sell you a much more aggressive tune......... So for those doing a 1 time tune the cost it now $860 plus or minus what ever your shipping charges. So if you didn't notice I didn't add a intake or filter which would put you at 4 more HP. Or a high flow CAT that would add another 5HP for about $120 ( I got my CATCO for $50 and welded my own flanges). That my friends puts you at 215HP at the crank and 1 HP less than the sr20det swap. So is the KA still worth achievable numbers..... YES
This is the set up that will give you the same power to the wheel as an sr20det boosted at 7PSI. At the wheels the SR makes these numbers with no modifications or additional boosting.
So now allowing room to play with your finances there is room for bigger numbers and internal modifications.
Effective alternatives are crank scrapers they actually kill harmonic disturbances and allow the crank to rev easier, (prevent oil from misting and spraying through out the engine, this method actually cools engine oil temperatures when modified with a windage tray which you can purchase for about $110 from Ishihara and Johnson crank scrapers......
As we all know there are free mods as well OBD and OBD1 KA's can remove the SCV's for an easy 6HP gaind to the wheels.
Also the KA coolant bypass which I don't think is anything significant accept for about fraction of a donkey.
Does advanced timing work??? Not really by a modification by itself, not unless you have retuned the ecu and/or tuned the cams as well. So for those that haven't tuned properly you are just wasting fuel. Just keep timing at the distributor set at 20BTDC, or unless a piggy back (SAFC and wide band) is used to adjust the right A/F ratio for the timing adjustments...
Are cams worth it? for the price JWT sells there cams for...Fu$k NO.
How do I know most of this...
Now can I back up these dyno's??? Yes with a Dyno of my own using 95Octane and stock timing.
(UPDATE) PDM racing now broke the new dyno record with the same mods this is one year later from the start of this thread...
Last edited by BigVinnie; 10-01-2009 at 09:06 AM.
02-09-2006, 08:03 PM
#2
Contributing Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 513
Nice vinnie. I plan on may be building my ka a little but im' going to hopefully ka-t it this summer. Nice write up
02-09-2006, 08:03 PM
#3
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ‰«“ꈺ–k’J
Posts: 339
except the throttle response from a SR20det with a q45 throttle body and light flywheel.
02-09-2006, 08:05 PM
#4
Originally posted by silviasichigo
except the throttle response from a SR20det with a q45 throttle body and light flywheel.
except the throttle response from a SR20det with a q45 throttle body and light flywheel.
02-09-2006, 08:18 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ‰«“ꈺ–k’J
Posts: 339
haha yeah that is quite an accomplishment you have there though I want to do the same to an S15 SR20de slam it into a 88 S13 chassis and have some fun 320 tomei's good fuel system MSD ignition pistons, conrods. I am jsut waiting for the right moment but it won't be as cheap as $1000 I like to spend big on the projects.
02-09-2006, 08:25 PM
#6
Originally posted by silviasichigo
it won't be as cheap as $1000 I like to spend big on the projects.
it won't be as cheap as $1000 I like to spend big on the projects.
02-09-2006, 08:40 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ‰«“ꈺ–k’J
Posts: 339
See in japan I don't have to worry about street legal hahah when I go back to Tx I might not have to worry about it either since I live very close to the track.
02-09-2006, 09:20 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 400
looks good very good info i like it forsure i will take a look at this more in depth as i will be doing this in the comming months yeah baby good posts and info dude=)
02-09-2006, 09:28 PM
#9
Contributing Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Waterford, Ca
Posts: 2,863
The thread is revived!!! With Proof!!! Good work BigV....how do you like your wheels? lol...
Gosh I wish I had a 240 again..
Gosh I wish I had a 240 again..
02-09-2006, 10:19 PM
#10
Originally posted by Fast1One
....how do you like your wheels? lol...
Gosh I wish I had a 240 again..
....how do you like your wheels? lol...
Gosh I wish I had a 240 again..
If you ever have a chassis I'll help you build your engine....
02-09-2006, 11:07 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 72
Thats nice stuff and BTW, you mentionned JWT cams, another way instead of paying big bucks for them is to take the 91-94 S13 exhaust cams for S14's. Not a drastic change but for the price it's worth. I have 2x248(2 exhaust cams from a 91) and I have seen a difference. Might try different setup this summer (ex: 248/240, 248/232)
Last edited by redpotatoes; 02-09-2006 at 11:09 PM.
02-10-2006, 02:37 PM
#12
Contributing Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Cod, Ma.
Posts: 652
very nice vin!
damn i can't wait until my cosmetics are done.
everyone always asks me "you got the Sr20 in there?" for now i say "no, but the KA is capable of a lot more than the SR"
it'll be nice to say "no, but i'm making the same amount of power!"
damn i can't wait until my cosmetics are done.
everyone always asks me "you got the Sr20 in there?" for now i say "no, but the KA is capable of a lot more than the SR"
it'll be nice to say "no, but i'm making the same amount of power!"
02-10-2006, 03:04 PM
#13
Contributing Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Waterford, Ca
Posts: 2,863
Originally posted by BigVinnie
Yeah the wheels are treating me great.....
If you ever have a chassis I'll help you build your engine....
Yeah the wheels are treating me great.....
If you ever have a chassis I'll help you build your engine....
02-10-2006, 08:10 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 111
What does this term mean: SCV's?
02-10-2006, 08:12 PM
#15
Swirl Control Valves: secondary butterfly's one found in each runner to OBD1 KA's...... They take up space in the runner that could be used for additional air consumption....
Last edited by BigVinnie; 05-12-2007 at 11:26 AM.
