The World of Holset TurboCharging
01-21-2008, 04:45 PM
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The World of Holset TurboCharging
Disclaimer: this is info is based of what i have done. im not bringing you ideas from Bobby,Mike and Ricky. im not trying to sway your decisions, this is just useful info for someone looking to get into the Holset arena. if you wanna spend 5 billion dollars on a turbo kit only to be let down go ahead, We all still love you.
Hello
as many of you have come to know, i don't exactly follow the "traditional" methods of modifying a car. I use whats available to me and don't mind getting my hands dirty creating my own parts etc. The reason that I bring you this info is to explain my finding and more importantly my hands on experience with Holset turbo's. i will try to be as brief as possible because the links will provide more pictures and info for you to read and understand.
These turbos simply are great alternatives to the more popular Garrett, Turbonetic's, etc turbo's. what a lot of people don't take into account is, the holset's are made for much much bigger diesel engines. as you will see the HX series turbo has a wide range of turbo's that are matched to the diesel motor in relation to their displacement.
you may ask yourself.. hmmmm a hx30 is made for a 5.0 liter diesel engine and my car only has an 4g63, Sr20, Ca18, B16, B18, Vg30, Rb20 etc etc... you cant really go off of the size of the engine but you also have to use common knowledge. you cant take a Hx40 and put it on a D16 and expect it to spool fully at 2000 rpms lol. Also take into account your application: auto-x, drag, road racing, drifting etc.. they all have different requirements of your car in relation to suspension, wheel and tire choice etc....... whole different world.
ill just quote from Engine Tips.com they said it better than i could. and then ill get on with the write up.
Initial Info/facts
--------------------------
these site were helpful to me when i really got into holset's/turbo systems some years back
1.Cummins.com
2.dodgeram.org
3.Garrett Turbo System 101
quick chart i made so you don't have to link up to the site if you don't want to
Boost levels for respective dodge ram truck years..... use this to somewhat assist you...but note. psi levels are met much faster with diesel motors. You can use the stock wastegate, but i just would not do it on the bigger holset's.. the chances of spiking is much higher. the W in the turbo name stands for "Wastegate"
these turbos are cheap for us because they are for a truck application.... and not really built for after market performance in mind. 4-6 cly Mustang guys have been running holset's for many years now
these turbos are awesome quality... one night while going home after welding up my exhaust..... i noticed my oil pressure was acting up.... so i pull over and wow ..... big hole in my oil pan from a puncture. i was driving at a very high rate of speed... lets just say my turbo spooled for little over a mile with no oil at all... I took it apart and everything was fine.
for smaller applications
the hx30 goes unnoticed and the hx25 is another good one...
here is a picture of the hx25... will bolt right up with T2 flanged manifold
Where to get them?
---------------------------
i found a H1C on eBay that i was looking for when i built my turbo kit some years back. To my luck not only did i find it, but the shop was located in Rockville MD. I talked with the owner of the company and he allowed me to come check it out before buying. The turbo was as described, " zero shaft play no leaks etc". He also allowed me to browse through his shop freely and was very excited to show me his latest turbos that had Zero miles on them etc.
This shop houses EVERY holset ever made (H1C,H1E,H2C,H2D,H2E,HX30,HX35,HX40,HX50,HX55,HX60 ,WHX80,HX82...........
SOURCE) and many OEM Garrett chargers. some are rebuilds/parts only. some are in fair to new shape. many of the BIG ones power Detroit trucks, Earth Movers, Marine equipment etc.
they are great project turbos for DIY guys/gals and cost way less then the leading brands and are the same quality and better in some aspects. many of them that you see in the pictures that can actually fit in our cars without major modification are mainly T2,T3 and T4 flanged with either 4/5 bolt and v-band exhaust outlets. for the most part you can use standard feed and return oil flanges. some are threaded for use with banjo bolts. It takes minor modification ( drilling, tapping, converters etc) to make them work
GoldFarbinc ebay store
GoldFarbinc Main site
More Images
Whats needed to Install the Turbo?
-----------------------------------------------
As with all turbo setup's a few things will be the same universal and those things are:
Turbo
exhaust manifold
oil lines
fittings
Intercooler and pipping
Wastegate ( internal or external )
I initially thought that getting this revhard manifold would free up the space i needed, but for my application, the turbo was to close to the master cylinder. I had to create my own manifold. Some of you guys will luck up and have a manifold design that allows you to run the holset of your choice with little or no modification
in this picture i still have three other important parts that led to an quick fabrications of parts for my turbo set which are the turbo, v-band kit and the 180deg mandrel bend for my downpipe.
however you must make sure you have the correct flange type.. common holset flange types are T2, T3 and T4 just like the popular Garrett etc turbos
this is the manifold kit that i got. the reason it worked so good for me was, i was able to mount the turbo where i wanted. there is nothing at all wrong with pre-made manifolds. but when you get into modification, nothing goes as planned, so it would have sucked to spend more money on another manifolds and not get the fitments i needed. there are Log manifolds available that could have fit my H1C, but they were like 400 dollars+ and i had the means to make my own.
Jgstools.com
where turbo is placed ( ill see if i can find a picture of the finished product)
Oil inlet and outlet
this is what holset's commonly look like in this department.. as you can see, the outlet has standard 12mm bolt threads and you can mate the T3 oil outlet flange to it. the inlet however has a Banjo style fitting.... you could fit a T3 inlet flange on there, but you would have to drill and tap it
Fittings
all you have to do is get a 12mmX1.5 to 1/8thnpt reducer fitting. these are commonly found in plumbing stores, you can get it at home depot and it will not break. or you can get a fitting from auto stores that go from 12mmX1.5 to -3an or -4an
looks like this somewhat with smaller inlet of course.
look at the oil feed location of my turbo you will see it installed with the 1/8thnpt fitting screwed into it
Oil lines
standard -3an or -4an feed and -10an return which you can get from summit or eBay pre-made, or you can make them yourself like i did... i also have a oil jet kit that allows me to adjust oil pressure.
Jgstools.com
Hello
as many of you have come to know, i don't exactly follow the "traditional" methods of modifying a car. I use whats available to me and don't mind getting my hands dirty creating my own parts etc. The reason that I bring you this info is to explain my finding and more importantly my hands on experience with Holset turbo's. i will try to be as brief as possible because the links will provide more pictures and info for you to read and understand.
These turbos simply are great alternatives to the more popular Garrett, Turbonetic's, etc turbo's. what a lot of people don't take into account is, the holset's are made for much much bigger diesel engines. as you will see the HX series turbo has a wide range of turbo's that are matched to the diesel motor in relation to their displacement.
you may ask yourself.. hmmmm a hx30 is made for a 5.0 liter diesel engine and my car only has an 4g63, Sr20, Ca18, B16, B18, Vg30, Rb20 etc etc... you cant really go off of the size of the engine but you also have to use common knowledge. you cant take a Hx40 and put it on a D16 and expect it to spool fully at 2000 rpms lol. Also take into account your application: auto-x, drag, road racing, drifting etc.. they all have different requirements of your car in relation to suspension, wheel and tire choice etc....... whole different world.
ill just quote from Engine Tips.com they said it better than i could. and then ill get on with the write up.
"Just a quickie---We work, on a daily basis, w/ diesels that average 60-70+HP per liter at rated outputs. Turbo charging and low temp aftercooling has played an enormous part in allowing these types of outputs to become realistic and reliable..
As for "low-end" power/torque, again the turbo has been the one of the biggest contributors as to having a power curve with this low end power--With engines rated at 1800 to 3000 RPM max ( 25-30+++ PSI at WOT) , we see boost starting to rise rapidly from 1000 rpm and up with 15-20+ PSI in the 1500-1700 RPM ranges on many engines..
Newer waste gate technology, new or variable shaped air turbo inlets, and new ideas in turbo air mapping has allowed new designs to give this low-end boost while controlling max boost pressures at high speeds---
In a nutshell, turbos do not just engage or "turn on"--They come up to speed based on design and the power that the engine needs to deliver whether that is at a low RPM below peak torque, in mid-RPM's at peak torque, or at WOT..
Tony "
"A diesel engine pumps 100% of it's air capacity 100% of the time while a gasser pumps 100% of its capacity only at wide open throttle. Reason out your question based on that tip.
rmw "
As for "low-end" power/torque, again the turbo has been the one of the biggest contributors as to having a power curve with this low end power--With engines rated at 1800 to 3000 RPM max ( 25-30+++ PSI at WOT) , we see boost starting to rise rapidly from 1000 rpm and up with 15-20+ PSI in the 1500-1700 RPM ranges on many engines..
Newer waste gate technology, new or variable shaped air turbo inlets, and new ideas in turbo air mapping has allowed new designs to give this low-end boost while controlling max boost pressures at high speeds---
In a nutshell, turbos do not just engage or "turn on"--They come up to speed based on design and the power that the engine needs to deliver whether that is at a low RPM below peak torque, in mid-RPM's at peak torque, or at WOT..
Tony "
"A diesel engine pumps 100% of it's air capacity 100% of the time while a gasser pumps 100% of its capacity only at wide open throttle. Reason out your question based on that tip.
rmw "
Initial Info/facts
--------------------------
these site were helpful to me when i really got into holset's/turbo systems some years back
1.Cummins.com
2.dodgeram.org
3.Garrett Turbo System 101
quick chart i made so you don't have to link up to the site if you don't want to
Boost levels for respective dodge ram truck years..... use this to somewhat assist you...but note. psi levels are met much faster with diesel motors. You can use the stock wastegate, but i just would not do it on the bigger holset's.. the chances of spiking is much higher. the W in the turbo name stands for "Wastegate"
these turbos are cheap for us because they are for a truck application.... and not really built for after market performance in mind. 4-6 cly Mustang guys have been running holset's for many years now
these turbos are awesome quality... one night while going home after welding up my exhaust..... i noticed my oil pressure was acting up.... so i pull over and wow ..... big hole in my oil pan from a puncture. i was driving at a very high rate of speed... lets just say my turbo spooled for little over a mile with no oil at all... I took it apart and everything was fine.
for smaller applications
the hx30 goes unnoticed and the hx25 is another good one...
here is a picture of the hx25... will bolt right up with T2 flanged manifold
Where to get them?
---------------------------
i found a H1C on eBay that i was looking for when i built my turbo kit some years back. To my luck not only did i find it, but the shop was located in Rockville MD. I talked with the owner of the company and he allowed me to come check it out before buying. The turbo was as described, " zero shaft play no leaks etc". He also allowed me to browse through his shop freely and was very excited to show me his latest turbos that had Zero miles on them etc.
This shop houses EVERY holset ever made (H1C,H1E,H2C,H2D,H2E,HX30,HX35,HX40,HX50,HX55,HX60 ,WHX80,HX82...........
SOURCE) and many OEM Garrett chargers. some are rebuilds/parts only. some are in fair to new shape. many of the BIG ones power Detroit trucks, Earth Movers, Marine equipment etc.
they are great project turbos for DIY guys/gals and cost way less then the leading brands and are the same quality and better in some aspects. many of them that you see in the pictures that can actually fit in our cars without major modification are mainly T2,T3 and T4 flanged with either 4/5 bolt and v-band exhaust outlets. for the most part you can use standard feed and return oil flanges. some are threaded for use with banjo bolts. It takes minor modification ( drilling, tapping, converters etc) to make them work
GoldFarbinc ebay store
GoldFarbinc Main site
More Images
Whats needed to Install the Turbo?
-----------------------------------------------
As with all turbo setup's a few things will be the same universal and those things are:
Turbo
exhaust manifold
oil lines
fittings
Intercooler and pipping
Wastegate ( internal or external )
I initially thought that getting this revhard manifold would free up the space i needed, but for my application, the turbo was to close to the master cylinder. I had to create my own manifold. Some of you guys will luck up and have a manifold design that allows you to run the holset of your choice with little or no modification
in this picture i still have three other important parts that led to an quick fabrications of parts for my turbo set which are the turbo, v-band kit and the 180deg mandrel bend for my downpipe.
however you must make sure you have the correct flange type.. common holset flange types are T2, T3 and T4 just like the popular Garrett etc turbos
this is the manifold kit that i got. the reason it worked so good for me was, i was able to mount the turbo where i wanted. there is nothing at all wrong with pre-made manifolds. but when you get into modification, nothing goes as planned, so it would have sucked to spend more money on another manifolds and not get the fitments i needed. there are Log manifolds available that could have fit my H1C, but they were like 400 dollars+ and i had the means to make my own.
Jgstools.com
where turbo is placed ( ill see if i can find a picture of the finished product)
Oil inlet and outlet
this is what holset's commonly look like in this department.. as you can see, the outlet has standard 12mm bolt threads and you can mate the T3 oil outlet flange to it. the inlet however has a Banjo style fitting.... you could fit a T3 inlet flange on there, but you would have to drill and tap it
Fittings
all you have to do is get a 12mmX1.5 to 1/8thnpt reducer fitting. these are commonly found in plumbing stores, you can get it at home depot and it will not break. or you can get a fitting from auto stores that go from 12mmX1.5 to -3an or -4an
looks like this somewhat with smaller inlet of course.
look at the oil feed location of my turbo you will see it installed with the 1/8thnpt fitting screwed into it
Oil lines
standard -3an or -4an feed and -10an return which you can get from summit or eBay pre-made, or you can make them yourself like i did... i also have a oil jet kit that allows me to adjust oil pressure.
Jgstools.com
01-21-2008, 04:46 PM
#2
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 5,091
Turbo exhaust modification
with the holset's you will find out that they are v-band style for the most part, it will vary. this is the way i had to attack my setup.
my v-band idea didn't work as planed because my turbo has an 3in outlet and a 2.5in indentation that made it impossible to clamp and join my downpipe.........sooo........ i had to weld the flange onto the turbo like so. the pictures will explain the rest.
dump/Downpipe
Now we all know when you work on cars for a long time.. sometimes things will fall into place, but that only happens when mars aligns with the earth and all that jazz.
more than likely you will have to create your own dump/downpipe and or tweak what you have. this is what i did with the help of a buddy and a cool *** tig welder. i didn't make a divorced downpipe, its all one piece
(the oil is gone.... had a nasty oil leak) Had to bang on frame rail a bit to clear space for the exhaust
Final Product
If you have question about anything ill try my best to answer it..
later
Carry on
with the holset's you will find out that they are v-band style for the most part, it will vary. this is the way i had to attack my setup.
my v-band idea didn't work as planed because my turbo has an 3in outlet and a 2.5in indentation that made it impossible to clamp and join my downpipe.........sooo........ i had to weld the flange onto the turbo like so. the pictures will explain the rest.
dump/Downpipe
Now we all know when you work on cars for a long time.. sometimes things will fall into place, but that only happens when mars aligns with the earth and all that jazz.
more than likely you will have to create your own dump/downpipe and or tweak what you have. this is what i did with the help of a buddy and a cool *** tig welder. i didn't make a divorced downpipe, its all one piece
(the oil is gone.... had a nasty oil leak) Had to bang on frame rail a bit to clear space for the exhaust
Final Product
If you have question about anything ill try my best to answer it..
later
Carry on
Last edited by Biggamehit; 01-21-2008 at 05:01 PM.
01-22-2008, 12:57 AM
#4
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 5,091
yea its good.. people tend to look down on safc without knowing anything about it
everyone knows that 550cc injectors are the limit for safc controllers. so couple that with some kind of timing management and or ecu rom tune and your good to go.... thats all i have had to the last 2 years... Safc, injectors and n60 maf. I set my timing to 15deg
everyone knows that 550cc injectors are the limit for safc controllers. so couple that with some kind of timing management and or ecu rom tune and your good to go.... thats all i have had to the last 2 years... Safc, injectors and n60 maf. I set my timing to 15deg
02-08-2008, 10:54 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 165
yea its good.. people tend to look down on safc without knowing anything about it
everyone knows that 550cc injectors are the limit for safc controllers. so couple that with some kind of timing management and or ecu rom tune and your good to go.... thats all i have had to the last 2 years... Safc, injectors and n60 maf. I set my timing to 15deg
everyone knows that 550cc injectors are the limit for safc controllers. so couple that with some kind of timing management and or ecu rom tune and your good to go.... thats all i have had to the last 2 years... Safc, injectors and n60 maf. I set my timing to 15deg
Can u clear up something for me then? I've heard that the SAFC can handle up to 50% past the the stock injectors can. So basically take ur stock injectors. divide in half then add that to the stock number and that's what it'll be able to handle. And I've heard no matter what 550CC is max. I've heard this on and off IDK if its right. Either way I'm fine with my injector size. Just was always curious.
And yea holset turbos are great..
02-09-2008, 05:21 AM
#7
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Misawa, Japan
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50% is correct you can add from 0-50%... and you cant have injectors bigger than 550cc.. every safc does it..SAFC Neo has more programmable points then the others, I am using a SafcI gets the job done just as well...
safc itself as simple as it my seem, is still not that simple.. you cant just plug in a number and be on your way... as you know sir.. all setups differ, so you have to add and subtract fuel accordingly and alter in/out setttings ,dec air etc etc
when i added the wideband to my setup, tuning was soooo easy and fun man... before the wideband i just use my nose and ears. bad... very bad,
safc itself as simple as it my seem, is still not that simple.. you cant just plug in a number and be on your way... as you know sir.. all setups differ, so you have to add and subtract fuel accordingly and alter in/out setttings ,dec air etc etc
when i added the wideband to my setup, tuning was soooo easy and fun man... before the wideband i just use my nose and ears. bad... very bad,
02-09-2008, 12:36 PM
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 5,091
yeaup.. the directions are very simple... will take you all of about 30 min or so... just make sure you don't splice near the base of the ecu terminal, you wanna leave yourself some room for error.
02-10-2008, 04:20 AM
#12
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Misawa, Japan
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thanks man
also
i check every link bro... on multiple computers.. no issues
check your firewall and or security settings.. may be blocking something... the host sites are photobucket.com and imageshack.us
also
i check every link bro... on multiple computers.. no issues
check your firewall and or security settings.. may be blocking something... the host sites are photobucket.com and imageshack.us
03-04-2008, 06:00 PM
#15
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 5,091
yea man the bang for the money is awesome......... bro im just so bias toward magazines that say you have to spend 3 billion dollars to get a 90hp increase of power.
further more half those tools don't even race the damn thing after they spent the money on it...
blah
random rant sorry
further more half those tools don't even race the damn thing after they spent the money on it...
blah
random rant sorry
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