Drift techniques and pointers for rookies
 

As it says guys, tips and pointers...

I'm a rookie at drifting, fair share of track time as far as road courses but not so much at drifting. I've done the research, read "how tos" on drifting, and have found a few things that might work for me and my driving style that's not too advanced or hard on the drive train...

As i've said, you can read read read read about how to do it, kinda like reading about how to ride a bike, you can study it for years, and get on one and fall flat on your face. So what this thread is about is driver experience, first hand tips and pointers from people who got out there and have it mastered or close to mastered, to help out with the guys like me who are just getting started.. So please, explain what it is you do, and how you do it, details are required (IE speeds, gears, maneuvers, techniques, procedures).

No flaming please, this is intended to be instructional.

So far what seems to me to be the most viable thing to start on learning is..

power over
feint
shift lock

got any tips on those techniques? the most exp i've had is "controlled doughnuts" in parking lots, figure 8's wide sweeping slides, but nothing on a track..

i've found some interesting tips on this site.... *here*

So yeah, we've already discussed that shift-lock ISN'T a good idea for your car, especially since you wish to drive it home. It WILL destroy your transmission and your drive gear. Not fun!

You mentioned your clutch kicking doesn't work. How are you applying it?

Clutch kick is usually applied AFTER turn in, even if you combine clutch kicking with the feint movement, you would want to:

Lift
Turn out, back on the throttle,
Lift
Turn in, back on the throttle
Clutch kick
Counter

At least that's how I've applied it at events and I don't clutch kick, LOL!

For a basic clutch kick, just turn in, push on the clutch BRIEFLY (don't lay on the clutch letting your engine bang off the rev limiter). Just turn in, step on the clutch, side step or lift rapidly, and keep your right foot BURIED!

Essentially, when you clutch kick it should quickly wind up and wind down . . .

I'll try to post up some videos of each and every technique that I use to drift (mostly just feint, braking and lift off) and those I don't (I won't cover shift-lock, I like my car) that way they can be explained in full.

Sometimes seeing us grassroots guys apply the techniques makes it a little easier to get a full grasp.

-Dave

thats exactly what this thread is about...

so no shift lock... check...

i'll work on the clutch kicking, seat time/practice makes perfect.. i'm going to try to keep it kinda slow at this event thats coming up on the 15th... i don't want to have fun hitting a wall or anything, i'll prob try to stay close to the infield....

here's the course...
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...8b4bb8947c.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63...majik/hmmm.jpg

Hmmmm . . . that'd be some tire shredding goodness


And because I'm a jerk . . . the BIG BOY COURSE!!! For those with big skill or big power . . .or a little of both :FIREdevil:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63...gboycourse.jpg

nice track... get on it... learn learn.

drive with-in your limits.. but with out limits.

Wise and Noble that lesson was . . . .

http://www.the-planets.com/star-biog...iography_3.jpg

This is my first year for drifting, I mostly favor the clutch kick with the feint technique. Power-over is possible with my car but I tend to get some understeer around certain turns.

I use the E-brake to slow myself down when I am approaching a turn too fast, which happens quite often. haha. I dont know what it is but just flooring the car and having a cloud of smoke behind you just makes you feel AWESOME. haha.

I use shift-lock in the rain alot. I have only accidently dont this a couple of times in the dry.

Sounds like you suck . . .

good tips so far guys, and remember no flaming please... cause i suck too.... lol

i fully plan on pushing the limit, of myself as well as my car, yet still keepingmy it and myself within some form of comfortable reason... i'm not just going to get out there, go big like the pros and wreck.. i'll take it easy at first and then pound on it....

i use the feint, at a high speed (ie 30mph 2nd gear), and in a low gear with the RPMs just shy of wheel spin on a "feint" move, so when i do feint, they break loose and start spinning... is that a good way or what? i went out and practiced a bit today, and tried the other techniques but it was weird... i hope to be able to work em out more on the track without looking like a complete idiot...

hahah no flaming here lol.. we all started from some where.


i have been doing it for 2 years of of my 5 seriously.... and im just and advance rookie at this point.

you cant hold back you must commit

I'm not flaming

This guy is flaming . . .

http://paxarcana.files.wordpress.com...rd_simmons.jpg


I'm just pickin on Smoke, he'll bite back, I'm just waiting for it, LOL!!!

-Dave

I dont bite *****es. Haha. Yeah, I am still a rookie but I can connect entire tracks.

Drifting in circles around a pole helps alot. Start small and then work your way outwards, stopping to change tires as needed. haha. This helps you learn throttle control.

Unless your like Dave, he was born sideways.

LMAO! Nah, I still suck, I haven't learned how to adjust to various tires yet. Some people nailed it. You know what I mean? When you get a set of tires and they have HORRIBLE cold grip and EVEN WORSE hot grip?

I'm used to rocking good tires so when I put on a pair of Sh1t-Storm 100's, they tend to pull the rug from underneath me . . . .observe . . .





Note that these tires had AWESOME grip as they warmed up, then out of no where . . . the grip decided it didn't want to be a part of the equation anymore . . . .I don't get how people drift on crappy tires, it's just not practical.

was it the tires or the track? The track that I go to has random dirt patches on it that makes it difficult to hold a drift.

This day we called the dust bowl. It was horrible.



Is there any way to post videos from other websites?

This is the video.

http://videos.streetfire.net/vidiac....0-9b14000ec231


Hand Brake Drift (E-brake)- one of the basic drift techniques. pull the E-Brake (hand brake) to lose rear tire traction. throttle is needed to continue the drift. (this technique can be used to initiate drift, slow down, correct errors, or fine tune drift angle)

Clutch Kick- this is performed by holding throttle constant and "kicking" the clutch pedal to give a sudden jolt through the driveline to upset rear traction. (this technique can be used to initiate drift, speed up, correct errors, or change drift angle)

Feint Drift- this is performed by rocking the car towards the opposite direction of a turn and then using the rebound of grip to throw the car into the normal cornering direction. (note: this can be used in conjunction with other techniques to improve the results of that texhnique)

Braking Drift- this is performed by braking before a corner while starting to turn in. weight is shifted to the front wheels, causing the brake to have more effect on the rear wheels. steering and throttle control is then needed to compensate the initial oversteer effect.

Power Over- this is performed by entering a corner using heavy throttle to initiate drift. (note: high horsepower is needed to achieve suitable results on this technique)

Shift Lock- this is performed by downshifting into a corner and then releasing the clutch to slow the rear tires, losing traction. (this causes the rear tires to spin slower than the front: pulling the E-brake, with the benefit of being ready to get on the throttle. note this technique stressed the drivetrain)

Dirt Drop- this is performed by dropping the rear tires off the road into a lower traction surface to maintain or gain drift angle. (note: this technique is very useful for low horsepower cars, also good show move to produce a dirt rooster tail)

Kansei Drift- this is performed at race speeds. when entering a high speed corner the driver lifts his/her foot off the throttle while slightly turning into the corner to induce a mild oversteer and then balances the drift through steering, braking and throttle motions. (note: the car that is being used for this style of drift should be a neutral balanced car therefore the over steer will be induce when this technique is applied, if the car plows through any turn this technique will not work)

Jump Drift- in this technique the rear tire on the inside of a turn or apex is bounced over a rumble strip to help lose traction resulting in oversteer.

Choku Dori- this is done by pulling the E-brake through a straight to start a high angle drift and to hold this angle to set up for the turn ahead. (note: this can only be done at high speed)

Manji- this is a slow swaying faint like drift where the rear end sways back and forth down a straight.

The tires, LOL!

Blizzacks, not exactly the key tire for drifting, my old sponsor wanted me to try them out to see what they'd be about. Yeah . . .no . . .

-Dave

Did he want you to drift in the snow or something?? haha. Those are snow tires. Just because they have soft compound doesnt mean that they are good tires. haha.

okay okay, i think i can start peicing these things together in my head, now to try some of these things on the track instead... lets hope it works out...

slightly off topic as per the subject matter, i have another ubernoob question... since this is going to be my first "event", what are these all about? is it mainly guys like me, or novices just able to get out and get down, or are they usually reserved for the experienced people? i want to get out there, but i don't want to take anyone's time up with possible useless attempts at drifting.. while others are waiting for thier "heats" to get points or whatever, is this a competition I'm entering? or just a "drift day"

the closer Saturday comes the more it's like I'm getting some poon for the first time, but knowing when to expect it, butterflies, nervousness, apprehension.. the works..

i feel like i can talk to y'all bout it considering you guys have been through it already, and i've been here a while and look up to most of you guys. so hopefully this is taken as it is, and i don't get railed on too hard lol...

any other tips for first timers?

well drifting enviorments are generally very awesome. its like a car meet but with live action.

you will make buddies the could be for a lifetime just relax and have fun. I will list somethings to bring. the amount of things you will bring will depend on the condition of your car and only you know that. if you know your clutch may be failing, its good to bring an extra clutch kit. i have swapped clutches at events before and swapping transmissions is not uncommon either.

I dont want to scare you, but with this sport, you're either all in or watching from the stands.


Fill your tires up with about 50-55 psi before the event and Adjust accordingly to the feel. Rear tires for our cars needs to be hiked up ( results vary when your HP is higher), this will reduce sidewall flex ( because only gangsters stretch tires). the front tires should be at about 35-40ish psi this will allow for more contact with the ground. You also have to add in the PSI spike that will happen if you are going fast enough.



what to bring when just starting:

-Food/water

-All of your car lubercants ( except Ky Jelly )

-ALL of the basic hand tools ... bigger is better and tire changing equipment

-two ton and above jack with 4 jack stands at least 2

-tires and rims to drive home on

-zip ties

-tire pressure guage.

-helmet

-driving gloves becuase your palms will probably sweat and well they are just uber awesome.

bouns

Impact gun cordless or corded
-clutch disc/kit

-oil pan

-transmission


it may seem like a alot..but most of what i listed could be found in my 240 daily everywhere i went.

dont be like the guy that goes to the junkyard with white suit on and no tools in hand.... WTF is he there for hahahahaha. no is siad NO!!!! i will not pull that engine for you.

Dont worry about taking up other peoples time. Try not to be too nervous otherwise your just gonna start spinning out left and right.

If you find yourself getting really worked up and making alot of mistakes, just take a deep breath and try to relax yourself.

Talk to some other the other drivers, maybe you can sit shot-gun with them on a few runs and you can get a feel for what the car is supposed to be doing. (try to ride with someone with a set-up closest to yours)

Dont be afraid to ask other drivers what speed, initation they are using, etc...

And most of all

HAVE FUN!!!!

P.S. I wouldnt recommend bringing a girl to your first event, she might go home with someone else. Haha.

I think he wanted me to die . . .I don't have him as a sponsor anymore for a few reasons:

1. He doesn't know what drifting is about, he thinks any tire that touches the road is a good tire . . .hence the decision on that one.

2. He forgot to order tires for an event a few months back, that's an unforgivable mess-up. Especially when you forget the tires the DAY BEFORE THE EVENT!

3. He called himself giving me good deals, I got with these other prices and they were beating HIS PRICES to me by 50 percent.

So yeah, don't screw over your driver, you'll go out of business . . . driver's talk.

Even though you need to relax, you're not going to be able to, it's just the way of the land dude, you'll get used to it, and then you'll be like me . . .I went from showing up an hour before gates opened to showing up almost an hour AFTER they opened, LOL!

Remember tech inspection, no leaks, battery tied down, seat belts work, seats fixed, tires properly inflated, no loose items in the car.

Remember your helmet

Remember to ALWAYS ASK FOR RIDE ALONGS! Until you get to where you can link a course everytime, you need to be riding along. Ride along with as many people as possible. If you're not driving, you should be in someone else's car unless you're working on yours.

Ask others to ride along with you and offer advice, and DO NOT be afraid of constructive criticism. You have driver's like ME that are kinda harsh and will say "You kinda suck, try this .. . " or "You're going WAY TOO SLOW into the sweeper, grab your balls and go faster" . . . .on the other side you have drivers like my big brother (Biggamehit) who are nicer and will hold your hand through the entire course with "Words of Inspiration" . . *bah*


Drift or Die, that's how I look at it . . . I've dealt with both teachers, the ones that are super nice, and the ones that are a bit of a jerk . . .you take it all and learn from it. Usually the jerks are the better drivers, LOL!

*cough*MikePeters*cough*

Most events are a good mix of great drivers and not-so-good ones. But don't be afraid to ask other novice's what they think about your driving or for advice. And if someone asks you a question that you don't feel comfortable answering or that you feel isn't your place to answer (such as, where are the clipping points on the course) refer them to someone, it's better to pass the buck to a better driver or event-organizer than to give someone misinformation.

You'll do fine, you sound determined. Just get out there, learn, spin, crash (it WILL happen, it's not "if", it's "when"), pop tires, blow engines. That's how it's done.

Drifting is the dumbest thing you can do with a car . . .EVER!

And I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world . .

-Dave

my car is pretty much top notch shape, not having a job, and a lot of free time has given me pleanty of time to tinker, rebuild stuff, and get **** right... so as far as my plans for bring along stuff, was gonna be.... oh an i'm commited, if i hit anything, i'm not gonna cry about cracked/broken aero, i'm gonna keep going (within safe reason)

food/gatorade
4 stock S14 wheels
7.5 tires, 3.5 @ 205/55/16 (stock) and 4 @ 225/55/16
2.5 ton hydraulic jack
4 jack stands (new addition, thanks biggamehit)
all my tools, sadly they all fit in one big carry tool box... but gets the job done, all of said stuffs will be loaded in my 2dr 4x4 tahoe, as my "pit truck" am i overdoing it? (side note, i can use my tahoe as a tow vehicle in case anything happens... thank god for third vehicles with the ability to tow a house)

i was planning on rocking my 18's up front, great tires, hella grip, and throwing the crappy ones on the back to slide around on... good idea?

i got this semi sponsor, and he said i could use the light weight 15's and tires off of his SCCA championship car... but i don't know if i want to take him up on that, i know my car will spin em better on 15's but i think they're like 15x10 or whatever, and far to wide for NA applications......

as far as asking for help, i was planning on doing that as much there as i am on here right now.... except i'll be out there..... good tip on the ride along, either someone with me, or me with someone, i would antually prefer the jerk, nothing locks my jaw harder in place than an a$$shole... so that would work best for me...

so if i can't "link" a course (i'm assuming that means maintain a drift through various turns) then i shouldn't try it? i know i'll be crap but i'm sure there's a turn or two i can hit up....

oh, and good shot on asking someone who has a similar setup how he does it.... there's got to be someone out there riding on nothing but springs and an open diff (weaksauce, i know)

Hmmmm your wrong david hahahaa

i dont really ofter to much beyond basic advice.. im am still learning.. i can link courses, but i have ways to go.

and lol i tell people how it is lol.. i know your just pulling my penis.. i mean my leg

--------------
bro


DON'T do that.. you car will look liek a See saw and from experince, i will never drift a car with a +2 difference..

i had 18s in the front and some 16s in the rear becasue they were free to burn.. i managed but i added the correct size and O MY.... a whole new ball game with much more control. I recommend when you get better to use the same size all the way around, it matters alot. Some pro's/amatures stagger tire and rim size, but they put in hours of testing and tuning at the track.

in relation to grip in front.. even starting i would suggest getting good tires up there with good PSI levels. Understeering becuase your tires suck is not good at all.


----


power and tire size:

i learned last event that the RB spins 235/45/18's on the rear like they are nothing... so i will not ever drift with anything under 17s in the rear that are at least 235's.

Yeah, I run 245/45/17s all the way around and am about to pick up some 275s . . .I can't run anything lower than 245 because the grip level is far too low.

I would say for your car, a 225 or 235 16 or 17 would be optimal, as DJ said, you don't want to run too much of a stagger as it will throw the natural balance of your car off.

But, you'll see what's going on once you start drifting, you'll learn quickly and realize your follies as we all have. Hell, Donnie and I look back at the things we talked about and tried when we first started drifting and laugh because now we realize that it was silly to think that way.

HAH! I love drifting . .

-Dave

as far as front tires for me... i dont run anything bigger than 235 lol it will turn into a steam roller lol

for example JR's Stang is running like 3xx in the rear and 235ish in the front. Really Larger than life tires in the front dont help with steering however as dave pointed out lol.... running 205's in the front dont really help lol.


ps

ALIGNMENT IS KEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


you can do it with a crappy alignment as i have done in the pass... i mean you dont really think about it.. but when you are driving in a stright line fast as **** with the center of your steering wheel at 11 oclock lol you trick yourself.

soooooo even though the outer diameter is the same on my 18's as on the 16's (i wanted to maintain speedo function), it will throw the balance off??? i mean i know it will look goofy, but they have the same overall outside size... i'm just worried about front grip cause the "spare" tires i have are all kinda crappy... and the one i have on now are excellent, even awesome wet weather traction, and i think i read somewhere you want as much grip up front to reduce understeer, and to control the angle of your oversteer...


sorry guys, please bear with me lolol



if anyone else has a questions, ask away, this is what this thread is about, not just my trials and tribulations...


EDIT: after posted i saw the alignment... my car tracks nice and straight, but i haven't had a chance to get an alignment since the Tien S-Techs

But the diameter of the wheel is bigger.. tires size doesn't matter in relation to wheel size.


The balance is off because if you look at the car it will appear to have a reverse drag racing stance which will greatly effect handling characteristics

Go back and view all of those drift initiation techniques. If you go out with your car with improper balance, you will have a hard time performing them.

Haha, yeah my car doesnt have the best alignment. I would recommend getting that diff welded though. Chop your springs and weld your diff. Haha.

na dont chop your springs mate lol

also check out the how to section.

if you dont want to weld the diff. you can shim same results

k cool.... i'll get the best 2 tires i have (i might get a penny, and take a pic of all of e, not sure which would be best as i have two different brands with different tread patterns), i'll get the best 2 and put them on the front....

what about my lack of alignment.... i have a bit of toe in on the rears, and some camber, looks like that "mad tyte" camber i see on those VIP cars or whatever just not near as serious... all from lowering the car.... this might turn out to be a much more $$ venture than i initially thought... i just wanted to be on my car for a few laps lolol


cut springs=EPIC FAIL

You can get adjustable lower control arms to fix the camber angle. As long as your toe-angle adjusters arent froze, you can get them aligned at any tire shop. I was kidding about the chopped springs, I did this on my car and ended up blowing my struts out. I invested in a set of coil-overs after that.

This is my last event for this year.

Attachment 12816

hahaha good stuff i chopped my springs also a long time ago.. but i heated them and seated them properly.

i have had JIC FLT-A1's on my 240 for the last hmmmm year and a half now.


Mr Black


its not so much about money... it about spending the money you have on the right stuff.

at your level honestly a set of pretty new ( at least about 75% tread ) tires will last you. you will not burn through tires while drifting unless you just spin out and keep mashing the gas.

a big factor is actually the surface. if you drift on a black top surface it will be easier on you the car and tires.

if you are on one of the jagged rock parking lots, tires will go away fast and it sucks when a rock just kills one part of the tread.

as you get better your tires will not last as long.

I just used a plasma cutter to cut some of the rings out. It looked good when I was done but bounced around like a damn Kangaroo

thanks big, all the tires are have are around 50% if not less... but i have 7.5 of em to work with... and a truck to haul em all lol... i hope to have some left, cause i was thinking of rocking my SE wheels for a while. i saw a guy with the same aero as i, and he was rocking his SE's and i don't think it looked that bad... with my 1" spacers it shoud look okay... here's a pic of his ride...

Attachment 12814
Attachment 12815

i think it looks kind of clean IMO.... we'll see after the drift event if i leave em on or not....

Nothing wrong with stock wheels . . .I don't think I'll go up passed stock at all unless it proves to be supremely beneficial. It's not how good your car looks, it's how good you look driving your car . . .

i look great while driving my car!!!! one benefit to having most of my ext stuff done and less than a 1/3rd of my mechanical stuff done is my car looks great, show stopper on the streets, chick scope me, and yeah, i give em that "yes you can" grin....

i've even been stopped at red lights by older fellows (40+), and having them tell me what a nice car i have... kinda nice when even the older crowd who doesn't much understand the whole tuner deal can respect a car i've put so much into.... and here i am bout to go beat on it at the track.... better bring zip ties...

either way, tomorrow i'll get the "good" set of tires put on my OE wheels and drive on em till saturday, might have a bit of spirited driving as well to get accustomed to the new tire/witdh/track feel...

From the top . . .repeat after me . . . LOL:laugh:


EDIT: WOOT! 944 posts . . .

I'm all over it baby lol... no sense in repetition... oh and on another local forum here, looks like i laid claim to a VLSD for $20, lets hope i can scoop it up by this weekend. i DO WORK so i'll install it as soon as i get home... lets just hope it's 6 bolt and not 5.... coming out of a RB20 swapped S14, it should be plug and play... let's also hope it's not a dead one either... the guy doesn't even know what he has... he had to ask the guy who sold him the car if it was a VLSD... S14 with ABS, oh yeah, VLSD, and a stock S14 VLSD and not J30..... $20? who cares, i'll swap the fluid and work that summabish over at the track... might even improve my 1/4 miles times a bit....

i hear they're not much better for drifting than an open diff but after my research it seems as though everyone seems to think something is better than nothing.... lets hope it comes through...



EDIT: post No.215.... already took a screen shot of my 240th post on 240sxforums.com.... sorry S-chassis, been cheating on ya bit...

nothing at all like open diff.

im not going to say you cant drift open diff, i have, but


you nees lots of forward momentum.


open diff= long days

check out the how to section and have a look at my updated writeup thread

i just modifiyed my VLSD to act like a 2 way for a total of about 30-40 bucks or so.

Yeah, I just run a locking differential . . .my big brother just can't let me win . . .