KA24-E for a KA24-DE?
07-07-2004, 08:55 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1
KA24-E for a KA24-DE?
hey whats up all?
nem-b here and i gotta sorta newb question.
ok here my problem.
theres a guy selling a 89 or 90 240sx 5-speed.
so it has the KA24-E motor.
now he said that he has a KA24-DE that he would sell me for 100 bucks
with 80k miles on it.
so what im wondering is how much and how hard is it to swap a ka24-e
with a ka24-de? he said it bolts right in, but im wondering about the wiring?
would it use the same wiring? or would it need different wiring? he said
that the ka24-de comes with the wiring harness. but im not sure exactly
how hard or expensive its gonna be to swap the motor in and get it wired.
so if theres anyone out there thats done this, your input would be nice.
thanks in advance!
nem-b here and i gotta sorta newb question.
ok here my problem.
theres a guy selling a 89 or 90 240sx 5-speed.
so it has the KA24-E motor.
now he said that he has a KA24-DE that he would sell me for 100 bucks
with 80k miles on it.
so what im wondering is how much and how hard is it to swap a ka24-e
with a ka24-de? he said it bolts right in, but im wondering about the wiring?
would it use the same wiring? or would it need different wiring? he said
that the ka24-de comes with the wiring harness. but im not sure exactly
how hard or expensive its gonna be to swap the motor in and get it wired.
so if theres anyone out there thats done this, your input would be nice.
thanks in advance!
07-08-2004, 12:00 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 62
I'm planning on doing the same, here's what I've uncovered so far (from the zilvia.net guide, nico posts, and posts from here):
How to: Swap from SOHC to DOHC
User: mrmephistopheles
Name: Kevin Pratt
Following the demise of my wife's SOHC due to rod-knock, *pours a 40oz* I swapped a DOHC KA in it's place. In this post, I will tell you how
YOU CAN TOO!
I cover how to swap a S13 DOHC motor into a SOHC equipped S13, as well as parts necessary.
1. Source parts needed for swap (full parts list is at bottom of post).
2. Ensure you have adequate tools, space, equipment, time and money to accomplish this.
3. Source a motorset.
4. Yoink old motor from chassis. You can unbolt the motor mounts from above or below. Guide the motor out, making sure it doesn't damage
anything on it's way out. I'd pull the tranny at the same time as well, in case you're going to be utilizing the same transmission ,so that reinstallation will be much easier.
5. Remove A/C lines. You will have to get custom lines made if you want to keep A/C, or make a custom bracket for your SOHC compressor.
6. [OPTIONAL] Remove any other engine bay items like AIV, airbox, etc. and prepare engine bay to your liking. (clean, sand, paint, nothing, etc)
7. Move SOHC power steering lines over to driver's side & install DOHC power steering reservoir -OR- install S13 DOHC power steering lines.
8. Replace SOHC throttle cable with DOHC throttle cable. Two bolts at the firewall behind the accelerator (and remove the accelerator to make life easier.
9. Pull SOHC engine harness. You can either cut it at the firewall, leave it intact and pull it thru the firewall (into the engine bay), or whatever is easiest for you. Don't throw it away just yet - you may want extra wiring, or to keep the connectors for future use.
10. Install DOHC engine harness. Reverse of above.
11. If you're doing a manual swap, NOW is the time to drill out the place for the clutch master cylinder, install it, and run the hardline down.
12. reinstall everything you took out to prep the engine bay, like AIV, airbox, cruise control, etc.
13. Prepare your new motor. This means whatever maintenance you'd like to perform on it before it goes in, i.e. water pump, vacuum line
replacement, thermostat, reseal oil pan, timing chain job, belts, etc. It's about 11ty billion times easier working on an engine when it's OUTSIDE of a car.
14. Slide your slick new DOHC KA into it's new home. Again, watch your clearances. You don't want to damage anything or scratch that fresh new paint, right? Make sure you attach your heater hoses during this step. It'll make life MUCH easier.
15. After getting the tranny mount in and bolted down, tighten down the motor mounts. This is important, as your engine can sit cockeyed and still be tightened down at the motor mounts.
16. You're getting close! Reinstall your clutch fan (or not if you have electric stuff), and install your radiator and fan shroud. Install your Upper and Lower radiator hoses at this time.
17. Start connecting the harness to the motor. Now is the time to do a clean job of installing the wiring.
18. Finish installing everything else, like intake piping, sparkplug wires, etc.
19. Your engine bay SHOULD be complete. Now it's time to address swap wiring.
Wiring:
F'ing SIMPLE.
1. Locate the body harness (under dash harness that attached to the ECU) that attached to your old harness. Cut the old connector off (the one that attached to your SOHC harness) and attach your DOHC body harness connector. Just match the colors! There will be some wires left over. These are for the SOHC's diagnostic plug, and are unnecessary. Please note: Your car will NOT be able to hook up to a CONSULT tool. To accomplish this, you must get a body harness with all the correct DOHC wiring. This is why we cut the body harness connector off, and not the engine harness connector.
2. I recommend using a soldering iron, shrink tubing and electrical tape as opposed to butt connectors. It makes for a much cleaner job, and a cleaner electrical signal.
3. You need to swap out your tach if you want one that works. No wiring is involved, but it must be done. Simply pull your combination meter (gauge cluster) and remove the three screws behind the tach. Lift and separate. Installation is reverse of removal.
4. You should also extend the wires that go to the PS line sensor and connect that to your subharness. It's not necessary, but it's a good
idea.
Parts needed:
S13 DOHC KA (or S14 KA with OBDI lower intake plenum, S13 DOHC distributor and S13 DOHC coil & others)
S13 DOHC engine harness & body harness connector.
S13 DOHC MAF, intake piping, coil, tachometer, power steering reservoir and hoses (low pressure), throttle cable (and cruise cable if you have it.), engine-side brake booster vacuum hose, engine/transmission subharness (if swapping from automagic).
Optional: S13 DOHC power steering high pressure lines
A few sidenotes: S13 AIV system is same/same. Nothing needs changing there. For cruise control, the cable length is dependent on the motor. DOHC cruise control can't use the SOHC cable without a weird custom bracket.
For my swap, I used a '95 KA, adjusted to behave like a '92. I used a '92 exhaust manifold, EGR tube, distributor, lower intake plenum, coil, and vacuum routing. To eliminate the secondary butterfly vacuum line, I pinched it and sealed it. I performed a fully stock swap. No EGR or AIV elimination, no intake or cams or otherwise.
************************************************** ****************************************
Ka24E (SOHC) to Ka24DE (DOHC) F.A.Q.~
I asked alot of questions, and so have others with no reall answers to how to do all this, I finally finished it, and Am gonna help out some others.
So here goes~~~
So you start with a 89-90 sohc 240
ANd you wanna install a more ready available doch motor,
What you need to do this::
any ka24de motor and tranny. The sohc tranny will work if you have dohc bell housing.
s13 dohc ecu
s13 dohc wiring harness,
s13 dohc distrib, and coil
s13 dohc tach
s13 dohc throttle cable
s13 dohc maf sensor.
s13 dohc exhaust manifold, and factory downpipe.
s13 dohc intake. manifold, must be used if using a 94+block
s13 dohc air intake
s13 dohc powersteering lines (if you want it)
s13 dohc cruise controll (if you want it)
Preping the car. First off remove old sohc motor,and Tranny, you can do this at the same time, as i did, just make sure you go inside and take off the plastic pieces and remove the shifter. And unbolt the driveshaft. Also remove all the other pieces such as powersteering.And remove the stock computer and wiring harness, This is by far the hardest part of the swap, because the wiring has this plastic L shaped thing taped to it under the dash, and you can NOT pull it thru the firewall, (i tried) so you have to reach up under there and cut it away,, Its really a pain in the ***. You also wanna go ahead and install the s13 dohc wiring harness at this time so you have more room under there to try to wiggle wires thru the hole. Dont plug the wires into the ecu yet because you have some wiring to do under the dash. Next Degrease everything, Grease suspension... what ever you wanna do.
Next prepping the dohc motor to install. You need to remove all the old sensors from the sohc tranny, and some other ones on the motor, to replace the dohc one if using post 93 motor and tranny. If your using pre 93 dohc motor, then all your sensors will work. If using a post 93 block you need to now install the s13 dohc intake manifolds. I used the 96 upper intake and 93 lower intake when i did my swap, just so i coulld remove the secondary butterfly set, that seemed to trap up some airflow. I also capped all the vacume lines at this time and blocked off the egr valve. ((only if you live in a good county)).
Ok now that you have the wiring harness in the car drape it over the fender out of the way, And install your motor. I took off the front bumper and headlights and hood when doing my install so i would have more ability to get under the hood of the car (the pignose sticks out FAR) The motor goes in pretty easy, I did it with the tranny still atached for simplicity of it all, and so i didnt have to lay under the car and attempt to install it by my self! Also make sure the shifter is out of the tranny, or your gonna tear it up!.
(...)
How to: Swap from SOHC to DOHC
User: mrmephistopheles
Name: Kevin Pratt
Following the demise of my wife's SOHC due to rod-knock, *pours a 40oz* I swapped a DOHC KA in it's place. In this post, I will tell you how
YOU CAN TOO!
I cover how to swap a S13 DOHC motor into a SOHC equipped S13, as well as parts necessary.
1. Source parts needed for swap (full parts list is at bottom of post).
2. Ensure you have adequate tools, space, equipment, time and money to accomplish this.
3. Source a motorset.
4. Yoink old motor from chassis. You can unbolt the motor mounts from above or below. Guide the motor out, making sure it doesn't damage
anything on it's way out. I'd pull the tranny at the same time as well, in case you're going to be utilizing the same transmission ,so that reinstallation will be much easier.
5. Remove A/C lines. You will have to get custom lines made if you want to keep A/C, or make a custom bracket for your SOHC compressor.
6. [OPTIONAL] Remove any other engine bay items like AIV, airbox, etc. and prepare engine bay to your liking. (clean, sand, paint, nothing, etc)
7. Move SOHC power steering lines over to driver's side & install DOHC power steering reservoir -OR- install S13 DOHC power steering lines.
8. Replace SOHC throttle cable with DOHC throttle cable. Two bolts at the firewall behind the accelerator (and remove the accelerator to make life easier.
9. Pull SOHC engine harness. You can either cut it at the firewall, leave it intact and pull it thru the firewall (into the engine bay), or whatever is easiest for you. Don't throw it away just yet - you may want extra wiring, or to keep the connectors for future use.
10. Install DOHC engine harness. Reverse of above.
11. If you're doing a manual swap, NOW is the time to drill out the place for the clutch master cylinder, install it, and run the hardline down.
12. reinstall everything you took out to prep the engine bay, like AIV, airbox, cruise control, etc.
13. Prepare your new motor. This means whatever maintenance you'd like to perform on it before it goes in, i.e. water pump, vacuum line
replacement, thermostat, reseal oil pan, timing chain job, belts, etc. It's about 11ty billion times easier working on an engine when it's OUTSIDE of a car.
14. Slide your slick new DOHC KA into it's new home. Again, watch your clearances. You don't want to damage anything or scratch that fresh new paint, right? Make sure you attach your heater hoses during this step. It'll make life MUCH easier.
15. After getting the tranny mount in and bolted down, tighten down the motor mounts. This is important, as your engine can sit cockeyed and still be tightened down at the motor mounts.
16. You're getting close! Reinstall your clutch fan (or not if you have electric stuff), and install your radiator and fan shroud. Install your Upper and Lower radiator hoses at this time.
17. Start connecting the harness to the motor. Now is the time to do a clean job of installing the wiring.
18. Finish installing everything else, like intake piping, sparkplug wires, etc.
19. Your engine bay SHOULD be complete. Now it's time to address swap wiring.
Wiring:
F'ing SIMPLE.
1. Locate the body harness (under dash harness that attached to the ECU) that attached to your old harness. Cut the old connector off (the one that attached to your SOHC harness) and attach your DOHC body harness connector. Just match the colors! There will be some wires left over. These are for the SOHC's diagnostic plug, and are unnecessary. Please note: Your car will NOT be able to hook up to a CONSULT tool. To accomplish this, you must get a body harness with all the correct DOHC wiring. This is why we cut the body harness connector off, and not the engine harness connector.
2. I recommend using a soldering iron, shrink tubing and electrical tape as opposed to butt connectors. It makes for a much cleaner job, and a cleaner electrical signal.
3. You need to swap out your tach if you want one that works. No wiring is involved, but it must be done. Simply pull your combination meter (gauge cluster) and remove the three screws behind the tach. Lift and separate. Installation is reverse of removal.
4. You should also extend the wires that go to the PS line sensor and connect that to your subharness. It's not necessary, but it's a good
idea.
Parts needed:
S13 DOHC KA (or S14 KA with OBDI lower intake plenum, S13 DOHC distributor and S13 DOHC coil & others)
S13 DOHC engine harness & body harness connector.
S13 DOHC MAF, intake piping, coil, tachometer, power steering reservoir and hoses (low pressure), throttle cable (and cruise cable if you have it.), engine-side brake booster vacuum hose, engine/transmission subharness (if swapping from automagic).
Optional: S13 DOHC power steering high pressure lines
A few sidenotes: S13 AIV system is same/same. Nothing needs changing there. For cruise control, the cable length is dependent on the motor. DOHC cruise control can't use the SOHC cable without a weird custom bracket.
For my swap, I used a '95 KA, adjusted to behave like a '92. I used a '92 exhaust manifold, EGR tube, distributor, lower intake plenum, coil, and vacuum routing. To eliminate the secondary butterfly vacuum line, I pinched it and sealed it. I performed a fully stock swap. No EGR or AIV elimination, no intake or cams or otherwise.
************************************************** ****************************************
Ka24E (SOHC) to Ka24DE (DOHC) F.A.Q.~
I asked alot of questions, and so have others with no reall answers to how to do all this, I finally finished it, and Am gonna help out some others.
So here goes~~~
So you start with a 89-90 sohc 240
ANd you wanna install a more ready available doch motor,
What you need to do this::
any ka24de motor and tranny. The sohc tranny will work if you have dohc bell housing.
s13 dohc ecu
s13 dohc wiring harness,
s13 dohc distrib, and coil
s13 dohc tach
s13 dohc throttle cable
s13 dohc maf sensor.
s13 dohc exhaust manifold, and factory downpipe.
s13 dohc intake. manifold, must be used if using a 94+block
s13 dohc air intake
s13 dohc powersteering lines (if you want it)
s13 dohc cruise controll (if you want it)
Preping the car. First off remove old sohc motor,and Tranny, you can do this at the same time, as i did, just make sure you go inside and take off the plastic pieces and remove the shifter. And unbolt the driveshaft. Also remove all the other pieces such as powersteering.And remove the stock computer and wiring harness, This is by far the hardest part of the swap, because the wiring has this plastic L shaped thing taped to it under the dash, and you can NOT pull it thru the firewall, (i tried) so you have to reach up under there and cut it away,, Its really a pain in the ***. You also wanna go ahead and install the s13 dohc wiring harness at this time so you have more room under there to try to wiggle wires thru the hole. Dont plug the wires into the ecu yet because you have some wiring to do under the dash. Next Degrease everything, Grease suspension... what ever you wanna do.
Next prepping the dohc motor to install. You need to remove all the old sensors from the sohc tranny, and some other ones on the motor, to replace the dohc one if using post 93 motor and tranny. If your using pre 93 dohc motor, then all your sensors will work. If using a post 93 block you need to now install the s13 dohc intake manifolds. I used the 96 upper intake and 93 lower intake when i did my swap, just so i coulld remove the secondary butterfly set, that seemed to trap up some airflow. I also capped all the vacume lines at this time and blocked off the egr valve. ((only if you live in a good county)).
Ok now that you have the wiring harness in the car drape it over the fender out of the way, And install your motor. I took off the front bumper and headlights and hood when doing my install so i would have more ability to get under the hood of the car (the pignose sticks out FAR) The motor goes in pretty easy, I did it with the tranny still atached for simplicity of it all, and so i didnt have to lay under the car and attempt to install it by my self! Also make sure the shifter is out of the tranny, or your gonna tear it up!.
(...)
07-08-2004, 12:01 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 62
(... con't)
Once the motor is in, Its all cake. INstall the driveshaft, it just slips right in,and then bolt the thing together, Next Just plug up the harness to where each thing goes, its realy easy, no rewiring anything under the engine bay. if the distrib is still in and hasnt been knocked around then your car even may still be timed. HEHE. Your radiator hoses require a bit of tweaking, but they do work.
Next install your throttle cable, its simple, just two bolts under the dash, and its in and out. I think that the sohc would work, but it would be pulled tight across the top of the motor and would look pretty bad, with the s13 dohc one you can tuck it back out of the way, and it looks alot better.
Since your inside the car, install the shifter Its simple! make sure you top the tranny off with fluid. and walla.
The next and easiet thing of all to do is connect the wires under the dash, there are 6 wires that you will need to attach, and thats it, the rest go to a check connector, and are not required to get the car running::
Yellow/red --Tach
Yellow/Green--speedo
orange--ignition start
black---ground
blue/black---water temp sensor.
These are the same color wires on each harness, the only reason that you have to remove the connector, and cant use it is because the wires would not meet up in the same place, but its really easier than it may look.
Also you will need to remove the cluster from the dash and install the Tach, its only held in the back of the cluster by three screws. Its easy also.
Last is to bolt all the body parts on and fire it up, you should be ready to go, if it doesnt start then check for spark and then for fuel. This happend to me and i finally found out why, I didnt install a ground on the back of the motor, no big deal but it was kinda pissing me off.
************************************************** ******************************************
Hey .. I just wrapped up my E to DE swap, took me about a day and a half.... the only thing to worry about really is the power steering needs to be switched to the driver's side to accomodate that the powersteering pump on the KA24DE is on the other side than the 90 stock KA24E... All you have to do is unclip the hardlines and the main bracket and bend them 90 degrees to the other side... also yea you need the 92 harness and ECU. And the dash harness from your 89-90 will not match the 92 engine harness. you need to cut and wire on a plug from a 91+ dash harness, you need to match 5 wires, 6 if you have AC, black, yellow with red stripe, blue with black stripe, orange, and yellow with green stripe i believe, also the tach signal from a 89-90 cluster differes from 91+ so you need to get a new cluster to make your tach work.... Hope this helps !!
Once the motor is in, Its all cake. INstall the driveshaft, it just slips right in,and then bolt the thing together, Next Just plug up the harness to where each thing goes, its realy easy, no rewiring anything under the engine bay. if the distrib is still in and hasnt been knocked around then your car even may still be timed. HEHE. Your radiator hoses require a bit of tweaking, but they do work.
Next install your throttle cable, its simple, just two bolts under the dash, and its in and out. I think that the sohc would work, but it would be pulled tight across the top of the motor and would look pretty bad, with the s13 dohc one you can tuck it back out of the way, and it looks alot better.
Since your inside the car, install the shifter Its simple! make sure you top the tranny off with fluid. and walla.
The next and easiet thing of all to do is connect the wires under the dash, there are 6 wires that you will need to attach, and thats it, the rest go to a check connector, and are not required to get the car running::
Yellow/red --Tach
Yellow/Green--speedo
orange--ignition start
black---ground
blue/black---water temp sensor.
These are the same color wires on each harness, the only reason that you have to remove the connector, and cant use it is because the wires would not meet up in the same place, but its really easier than it may look.
Also you will need to remove the cluster from the dash and install the Tach, its only held in the back of the cluster by three screws. Its easy also.
Last is to bolt all the body parts on and fire it up, you should be ready to go, if it doesnt start then check for spark and then for fuel. This happend to me and i finally found out why, I didnt install a ground on the back of the motor, no big deal but it was kinda pissing me off.
************************************************** ******************************************
Hey .. I just wrapped up my E to DE swap, took me about a day and a half.... the only thing to worry about really is the power steering needs to be switched to the driver's side to accomodate that the powersteering pump on the KA24DE is on the other side than the 90 stock KA24E... All you have to do is unclip the hardlines and the main bracket and bend them 90 degrees to the other side... also yea you need the 92 harness and ECU. And the dash harness from your 89-90 will not match the 92 engine harness. you need to cut and wire on a plug from a 91+ dash harness, you need to match 5 wires, 6 if you have AC, black, yellow with red stripe, blue with black stripe, orange, and yellow with green stripe i believe, also the tach signal from a 89-90 cluster differes from 91+ so you need to get a new cluster to make your tach work.... Hope this helps !!
07-22-2004, 08:53 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 62
Edit: sohc tranny and dohc tranny are the same.
And of course, more info on wiring, this seemed to shed more light on the custom wiring needed for the dash harness.
************************************************** **
its pretty easy, nothing hard about it. be sure you get these...
DOHC throttle cable from S13... S14 will make your gas pedal really high
DOHC power steering lines and reservior if you want PS
complete harness, must be complete, or you'll hate yourself
DOHC RPM gauge, or cluster
after that, the swap is straight forward.
The only tricky part is wiring the DOHC harness (where the wires come out of the ECU plug and go into the dash right behind the glove box. If you can, try to unplug both harnesses instead of cutting them, all you have to do is let down the glove box. Its really easy if you look at the screws that hold it up. The SOHC and DOHC harness only have nine wires that match up at that pluc, so cut the plug that goes into the dash harness, and match up the nine wires, there will be extra one left over, don't worry about them. once the SOHC plug has been spliced into the DOHC harness, then plug it back into the dash harness.
The rest of the stuff will plug right up into the car's body harness
Like I said before, its an easy swap.
And of course, more info on wiring, this seemed to shed more light on the custom wiring needed for the dash harness.
************************************************** **
its pretty easy, nothing hard about it. be sure you get these...
DOHC throttle cable from S13... S14 will make your gas pedal really high
DOHC power steering lines and reservior if you want PS
complete harness, must be complete, or you'll hate yourself
DOHC RPM gauge, or cluster
after that, the swap is straight forward.
The only tricky part is wiring the DOHC harness (where the wires come out of the ECU plug and go into the dash right behind the glove box. If you can, try to unplug both harnesses instead of cutting them, all you have to do is let down the glove box. Its really easy if you look at the screws that hold it up. The SOHC and DOHC harness only have nine wires that match up at that pluc, so cut the plug that goes into the dash harness, and match up the nine wires, there will be extra one left over, don't worry about them. once the SOHC plug has been spliced into the DOHC harness, then plug it back into the dash harness.
The rest of the stuff will plug right up into the car's body harness
Like I said before, its an easy swap.
Last edited by lanb135; 08-01-2004 at 01:37 PM.
04-12-2005, 03:40 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: north carolina
Posts: 461
Originally posted by thekage
question lanb...
i have a totaled s14/96 and a not running 89 s13. Was going to use the 96 ecu.. is that a problem? I have both harnesses and both ecus. Both are manual.
question lanb...
i have a totaled s14/96 and a not running 89 s13. Was going to use the 96 ecu.. is that a problem? I have both harnesses and both ecus. Both are manual.
If all you have to post is
04-27-2005, 04:24 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15
i have a question i have a 93 hardbody truck and i am doing the e to de swap and was wondering if you knew if the swap was pretty much the same and if it is you said that you can use the sohc harness inside the truck and just cut and paste the new plug for the ecu
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