Justin.b

Umm... what was untrue?

I'm aware that HP is a function of torque and RPM.

So the fact that HP is an actual number somehow makes HP/liter meaningful?

If you put a KA and a Civic SI motor in similar cars (same weight, drivetrain, etc) The KA equipped car will beat it in every competition despite being at a hp disadvantage (the Civic motor claims 160hp).

Have you ever heard the term 'peaky' when describing a motor? It refers to a motor with a mountainous torque curve - that only makes power at certain RPMs.

A Stock SR20DET has a broad, flat torque curve. If you start changing things, like going to a gigantic turbo, your torque curve will start to get peaky. You will make more HP, but the shrinking power band will give you a less drivable engine. Depending on how far you go, you can end up with a motor that will shoot you down the drag strip, but leave you standing still waiting for the turbo to spool up in traffic.

I know I'd much rather have the SR20DE's 140 hp and broad torque curve than the Civic's peaky 160. And that's not meant as a dis to the Honda motor because it's Honda - it's a dis beacause it makes less useable power. I'd certainly trade the SR for a V8 if it could work with the application.

-Justin
http://www.saltgod.org

I'm with Stupid

I doubt it. Racing is about the top end power end of story. The ka is good for street driving, but crap for racing (in stock form). That why it got such bad reviews, it's peak hp is 1000 rpms from the red line. The B16 would definately win in a race.

BTW I never said anything about hp/liter meaning anything.

Import Fanatix

well i think we are getting off topic, but the KA motor is no good without some type of Forced Induction on It. It is a strong torquey motor and I think we all agree, its just that we need something prefabricated for our cars to work and for it to be faster, hence the SR.

Honda's are very efficient cars, gas wise and emissions wise (always getting ULEV) and you can't knock them for that, but in a road race top end power doesn't help. In a drag race, it does.

Justin.b

Drag Racing is about top end power only - road racing involves a broader power band. And the Civic SI is not a guaranteed winner against a stock 240, pulling a 15.7 1/4 mile according to Car and Driver.

When you get into more specialized race setups where you have the knowledge and funds to change individual gear ratios and rear end ratios for the particular track, then you can often compensate for a small power band.

But street cars on a road course - the battle favors the broader, higher torque curves unless you have a car that is so light that it can carry a ton of speed through the turns.

Have you driven a Civic SI around? They're not very much fun unless you have them singing @6000+ rpm. Their torque peak is at 7000! Now if I could cruise around all day at 6k+ on the streets with my loud exhaust that would be great... but I probably couldn't do it for too long without getting pulled over.

Generally, the usable power band of a motor runs from its torque peak to its hp peak. The curves will usually intersect - as the torque curve drops, the hp peak should rise. This isn't a scientific law, but using this guideline gives the Si a useable range of less than 1000rpm. I wish I had a dyno chart for a stock 240 handy - but I will bet the numbers give a broader range than that and absolutely guarantee that wee have more torque available in the range before peak.

I think I misunderstood you about the hp/liter thing. Sorry 'bout that!

Anyone know someone with a Civic Si w/intake and exhaust so I can test my theory?

-Justin
http://www.saltgod.org

SilvaPwr

can you say drifting off topic? this post was a question about p/s lines and wiring harness, not about what car can be another. chill out guys. If your gonna have a pissing contest start another post!

Import Fanatix

Well just providing some information. You asked for it you got it. dyno results from a ka24de:

I'm with Stupid

Sorry about getting so off topic. But just as one last thing I'm gonna say a good driver on a road coarse should be able to keep the honda in it's sweet spot.

agressiveracing

damn the ka sucks..
no power over like 5k

SilvaPwr

ditto, silvIa all the way!

StanBo

Hahahahhaaaa

SilvaPwr

DAMNIT! I SPELLED IT WRONG AGAIN!!!!

I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"
I will not spell silvia "silva"

StanBo

I thought you were making a joke. I was laughing with you. I still find it funny.

**** it spell it silva. We all know what you mean.

I'm with Stupid

screw silvas, 18sx's are better

SilvaPwr

hahaha, you guys crack me up!

StanBo

You have to love this forum.