My baby won't start...
05-29-2007, 08:01 AM
#1
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jersey
Posts: 16
My baby won't start...
So I have a 1990 hatchback, KA24E. Was driving a steady 55mph in 4th down the highway, lost throttle response completely (cable still opens the throttle though), took her out of gear so she stalled out and pulled off the road. Try to start her back up, starter cranks but the motor doesn't start.
Got a tow back home, a few miles away, and took a look. Note that it was raining hard at the time this happened and there was some flooding on the roads so consider possible water damage:
-spark is sent to the plugs without fail.
-fuel pressure is fine to the rail, but my guess is it's not being injected due to an ecu issue or grouding failure, likely from the rain (it was raining so hard the cabin was leaking a little, which may have shorted something in the wiring around the ecu).
-I have the ecu sitting in two pieces on a table, there is some light rust and corrosion just from age but no major burns. there is slight water damage on the outside of the case but no evidence it penetrated to the board. the ecu does power up but returns a 55-No Malfunction when checked for codes.
-timing chain is intact, as the camshaft spins and the valves open and shut...it is theoretically possible it jumped a cog, but I'm hoping to rule this out as the engine was under no real stress at the time (cruising at 2500rpm, no accel) so I don't see how it would happen.
Any ideas on what I can test or work on to get her back on the roads where she belongs? I don't have a full garage to work in but I've built this car up from where I found her in a parking lot not running at all so I have plenty of tools and know my way around.
Got a tow back home, a few miles away, and took a look. Note that it was raining hard at the time this happened and there was some flooding on the roads so consider possible water damage:
-spark is sent to the plugs without fail.
-fuel pressure is fine to the rail, but my guess is it's not being injected due to an ecu issue or grouding failure, likely from the rain (it was raining so hard the cabin was leaking a little, which may have shorted something in the wiring around the ecu).
-I have the ecu sitting in two pieces on a table, there is some light rust and corrosion just from age but no major burns. there is slight water damage on the outside of the case but no evidence it penetrated to the board. the ecu does power up but returns a 55-No Malfunction when checked for codes.
-timing chain is intact, as the camshaft spins and the valves open and shut...it is theoretically possible it jumped a cog, but I'm hoping to rule this out as the engine was under no real stress at the time (cruising at 2500rpm, no accel) so I don't see how it would happen.
Any ideas on what I can test or work on to get her back on the roads where she belongs? I don't have a full garage to work in but I've built this car up from where I found her in a parking lot not running at all so I have plenty of tools and know my way around.
05-29-2007, 09:48 AM
#2
good way to utilize the steps in checking to see what the issue could be bro... plug the ecu back up and perform and diagnostics check.. if you are not sure, use the info below found on this link
http://www.club240.com/forums/showth...light=ecu+code
that should tell you where your issue is... I would swap for an known working ecu or coil possibly distributer/Crank angle sensor
http://www.club240.com/forums/showth...light=ecu+code
that should tell you where your issue is... I would swap for an known working ecu or coil possibly distributer/Crank angle sensor
Last edited by Biggamehit; 05-29-2007 at 09:54 AM.
05-29-2007, 10:20 AM
#3
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jersey
Posts: 16
good way to utilize the steps in checking to see what the issue could be bro... plug the ecu back up and perform and diagnostics check.. if you are not sure, use the info below found on this link
http://www.club240.com/forums/showth...light=ecu+code
that should tell you where your issue is... I would swap for an known working ecu or coil possibly distributer/Crank angle sensor
http://www.club240.com/forums/showth...light=ecu+code
that should tell you where your issue is... I would swap for an known working ecu or coil possibly distributer/Crank angle sensor
could be CAS...but how would I check that if the ecu doesn't report a problem?
05-29-2007, 10:37 AM
#4
what mode are you in when checking the ecu codes. there are different modes mainly 1 and 2.. simply put ignition on and off.
if the CAS was the issue code 11 would def flash indicating and faulty plug ( which happen to me and was considered an shorted/damaged wire), or the CAS it self..
way to check the CAS is.. turn the ignition to the ON position. pop your hood and pull the Cas plug off the dizzy and re-insert it and pull it off again, if you hear fuel moving through out the rail your good and to go a little further... Mark the position of your distributer using and marker.. take your 12mm wrench and loosen the distributer and rotate slightly, you should here the injectors click. if you hear both of those things your CAS is fine.
if the CAS was the issue code 11 would def flash indicating and faulty plug ( which happen to me and was considered an shorted/damaged wire), or the CAS it self..
way to check the CAS is.. turn the ignition to the ON position. pop your hood and pull the Cas plug off the dizzy and re-insert it and pull it off again, if you hear fuel moving through out the rail your good and to go a little further... Mark the position of your distributer using and marker.. take your 12mm wrench and loosen the distributer and rotate slightly, you should here the injectors click. if you hear both of those things your CAS is fine.
Last edited by Biggamehit; 05-29-2007 at 10:40 AM.
05-30-2007, 10:13 AM
#5
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jersey
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what mode are you in when checking the ecu codes. there are different modes mainly 1 and 2.. simply put ignition on and off.
if the CAS was the issue code 11 would def flash indicating and faulty plug ( which happen to me and was considered an shorted/damaged wire), or the CAS it self..
way to check the CAS is.. turn the ignition to the ON position. pop your hood and pull the Cas plug off the dizzy and re-insert it and pull it off again, if you hear fuel moving through out the rail your good and to go a little further... Mark the position of your distributer using and marker.. take your 12mm wrench and loosen the distributer and rotate slightly, you should here the injectors click. if you hear both of those things your CAS is fine.
if the CAS was the issue code 11 would def flash indicating and faulty plug ( which happen to me and was considered an shorted/damaged wire), or the CAS it self..
way to check the CAS is.. turn the ignition to the ON position. pop your hood and pull the Cas plug off the dizzy and re-insert it and pull it off again, if you hear fuel moving through out the rail your good and to go a little further... Mark the position of your distributer using and marker.. take your 12mm wrench and loosen the distributer and rotate slightly, you should here the injectors click. if you hear both of those things your CAS is fine.
05-31-2007, 06:15 AM
#7
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Join Date: May 2007
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update: I finally got her to start up and idle at about 500 under her own power for about 30 seconds...tps disconnected, throttle full open (died shortly after releasing it), shaking like crazy as if only one or two cyls were firing...gotta pull all the plugs again when I get home tonight and retest everything. Any new ideas on this?
And still trying to find a ride to a shop to get that damn socket. It's inconvenient when your roommate hasnt had a license for the past 5 years and everyone you know works long hours...
And still trying to find a ride to a shop to get that damn socket. It's inconvenient when your roommate hasnt had a license for the past 5 years and everyone you know works long hours...
05-31-2007, 05:42 PM
#8
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plug wires are all on right...1243. can't get her up on her own power today. pulled the plugs again and held them all side by side against a ground and cranked it, they all sparked in the right order.
When I pulled #3 some white gasoline vapor came out of the cylinder, if that's a hint at anything other than that it didnt fire properly and built up a bit from all this testing.
I read voltage on the injectors and they all drop from 12 to about 10 when cranking, im guessing that means they're working and the voltmeter (digital) just cant keep up with the rapid drops to 0.
I need to get a timing light...or find someone in the new jersey area who can let me test their ECU...90 ka24e auto trans. I will provide beer.
When I pulled #3 some white gasoline vapor came out of the cylinder, if that's a hint at anything other than that it didnt fire properly and built up a bit from all this testing.
I read voltage on the injectors and they all drop from 12 to about 10 when cranking, im guessing that means they're working and the voltmeter (digital) just cant keep up with the rapid drops to 0.
I need to get a timing light...or find someone in the new jersey area who can let me test their ECU...90 ka24e auto trans. I will provide beer.
05-31-2007, 07:15 PM
#9
hmmmm
the white vapors is just the vapor from the pressure and firing etc... normal
how are your grounds looking also have you since than run another diagnostic test.... also with in your ignition system what all is new and what is old.
also what is the condition of your motor? have you done a compression check. if the valves are messed up and or you have blown rings/failing head gasket, compression will be affected and that will stop the car from operating properly.
just an thought brother
the white vapors is just the vapor from the pressure and firing etc... normal
how are your grounds looking also have you since than run another diagnostic test.... also with in your ignition system what all is new and what is old.
also what is the condition of your motor? have you done a compression check. if the valves are messed up and or you have blown rings/failing head gasket, compression will be affected and that will stop the car from operating properly.
just an thought brother
06-01-2007, 06:38 AM
#10
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Join Date: May 2007
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hmmmm
how are your grounds looking also have you since than run another diagnostic test.... also with in your ignition system what all is new and what is old.
also what is the condition of your motor? have you done a compression check. if the valves are messed up and or you have blown rings/failing head gasket, compression will be affected and that will stop the car from operating properly.
how are your grounds looking also have you since than run another diagnostic test.... also with in your ignition system what all is new and what is old.
also what is the condition of your motor? have you done a compression check. if the valves are messed up and or you have blown rings/failing head gasket, compression will be affected and that will stop the car from operating properly.
grounds seem fine...I have yet to find any shorts or disconnects, but there could be some short I missed deep in a bundle of wiring. Voltage at the injectors was fine as I mentioned...that makes me doubt it's the ECU as I originally thought.
The motor's in decent shape...rebuilt some 30k miles back, though she sat for a while (I bought the car dead out of a parking lot where she'd been for a year and got her running again). Still, never had any internal problems...not even that ever-so-common timing chain rattle. A little oil burning when it's very cold out, but that's only until she warms up and was never an issue, if it were rings or a blown hg I'd expect to see a notable amount. It's probably more that I overfilled it slightly on the last oil change. Also she doesn't lose a drop of oil by the level on the dipstick.
On a dyno in december she put out the expected 140-something hp (148 I think but the figure escapes me this early), haven't noticed any gradual power loss, this was all quite sudden. Also if there's no compression I believe it'd sound odd cranking but she sounds just as nice as ever, but instead of starting instantly like she always did it just goes on and on and I cry inside. But I will pick up a compression tester tonight, it's a tool I should have on me anyway.
06-01-2007, 07:55 AM
#12
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perhaps it was 138 then? I won't have that paperwork until saturday as I happen to be moving this week (inconvenient, eh?). I keep it well tuned, got a surprising boost from swapping a 300zx fuel filter (I am king of $10 upgrades), new air filter, bosch plat plugs & a decent wireset...I'm not beating any sr's off the line but she certainly has never lacked pickup.
06-01-2007, 08:00 AM
#13
na bro... still will not be that high... you have to understand, you lose almost 30 hp through the drivetrain... also im not sure if you know, many many shops have un-calibrated dynos or dynos that need to be re calibrated.. im not trying to give you a hard time. but i just want you to know if you don't
with lighten flywhee, ACT clutchl, no emissions, no interior, no power steering or A/C, and bumper support i was able to run a 15.8 at the track with almost perfect reaction time. using an estimate from an hp calculator that put me at about 130-5 rwhp or so
what all do you have done to the car bro...
ps
just like to keep the air clear that is all.
with lighten flywhee, ACT clutchl, no emissions, no interior, no power steering or A/C, and bumper support i was able to run a 15.8 at the track with almost perfect reaction time. using an estimate from an hp calculator that put me at about 130-5 rwhp or so
what all do you have done to the car bro...
ps
just like to keep the air clear that is all.
Last edited by Biggamehit; 06-01-2007 at 08:10 AM.
06-01-2007, 08:12 AM
#15
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Anyone in North Jersey running a KA24E w/ auto trans?
I need to find someone with an auto trans ka24e ECU in the north jersey area, just to swap it quick and test if mine is bad...I'll buy a 6pack for anyone who helps me out.
I need to find someone with an auto trans ka24e ECU in the north jersey area, just to swap it quick and test if mine is bad...I'll buy a 6pack for anyone who helps me out.