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300 hp ka
Im building up a 240sx to race for the scca and i was thinking about 300 horsepower will be more than that little ka will ever need to smoke down the track. Now im still trying to learn and i dont want to swap the engine i like it as is. It's a ka24e so far everything is stock but i dont know where to look or what internals are best for what i need. Any sugestion on what company or what mods i should be looking towards.
I plan on buying a megasquirt ecu, Cams and valve springs (i dont know what kind or what to look for), maybe a stroker kit, and lighter race pistons, and lots of head work. maybe you guys can help me a little more as to were i should look for these parts and what i should look for. |
300 hp NA?
You better do a LOT of homework. Some of the GT3 KA24E's where pretty hot, but I believe they had a very large amount of cash to throw at them... Rebello Racing use to build them... You might start there: http://www.rebelloracing.com/ |
wow man that was the best info ive gotten all year. I called this guy and they were working on one i told him what i want and he said 300 hp is nothing lol but he quoted me for 5500 for a gt3 spec motor. Thanks alot.
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I was expecting more! $
RickY |
They are the ones that build them...
These guys build a 231hp KA24E/KA24DE as well: www.paeco.com Stage 4 - 231hp = $8400 for a complete engine + $800 core charge Stage Four: These are high rpm engines designed for SCCA or drag racing where maximum power is paramount. They use 13 or 14:1 pistons, all-out racing cams, fully modified heads, Paecolloy knife-edged cranks, chrome-moly rods with titanium wristpins and valve spring retainers, oversized valves, copper head gaskets, and a number of other trick items. |
hmmp anything is possible if u got the right set-up and tune
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wtf
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Originally Posted by sav180
(Post 385999)
hmmp anything is possible if u got the right set-up and tune
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why not go with something lighter and larger displacement? vh45, ls1, 1uz? the highest hp ka's i know of were in baja trucks
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SCCA huh? what type of racing?
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thats cuz everyone is bein to daamn scared to build one thats y..all the tuner shops jus wanna suck off the sr rb motors for the s chassis,not sayin there crap motors but we kno what they can do already and its time for the ka to shine....at one point there were saying that the ka couldnt be turbo'ed and it was a waste of time and no one was makin parts..**** now the ka got all kinda of aftermarket parts and ka puttin out 700-800 hp
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Yeah, thats going to be pretty tough. Especially with a single cam. Good luck though!!
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yeah bro its gunna take a lot of money but so does swapping an sr or an rb and finding parts for an rb ill pass but josh i think you know what car this is and what type of racing im gunna do lol.
but the reason im not swapping an ls1 in there is cause the class i race in doesnt allow it an that engine would be just way to much for such a little car (I like to turn, straight at that even) but i like the Ka because it has the torque that the smaller 4 bangers dont have like all those honda guys out there. |
Originally Posted by hatrick6
(Post 386022)
SCCA huh? what type of racing?
Originally Posted by sneezmaster112
(Post 388843)
yeah bro its gunna take a lot of money but so does swapping an sr or an rb and finding parts for an rb ill pass but josh i think you know what car this is and what type of racing im gunna do lol.
but the reason im not swapping an ls1 in there is cause the class i race in doesnt allow it an that engine would be just way to much for such a little car (I like to turn, straight at that even) but i like the Ka because it has the torque that the smaller 4 bangers dont have like all those honda guys out there. What type of racing are you doing? You still haven't answered this question. . . Oh and "all those Honda guys" out there, are running very fast low displacement cars. In autocross, it's not about power, it's all in the driver. How fast your car is doesn't really matter if you don't know where your braking zones are. In road racing, those same Honda guys, that you just tried to diss, are out there setting records in B18's with intake and header back exhaust in IT or ITC. So I ask again, which type of racing are you planning on doing with the "SCCA" and what class do you plan on participating in? You've got several SCCA members on this site that can help you if you let them know this little factoid and you've got me, a former SCCA member and current NASA member, that would be more than willing to help class you. But so far nothing you've talked about makes any sense. |
Yeah honda's are actually REALLY good cars. my brother has a teggy with a b18a, header, intake, aem fpr, aem fuel rail, crower cams and lifters and valve springs and retainers, aria forged pistons, bigger injectors, hes about to boost it and he already runs like low 12's. ****s a beast car. but yeah 300 n/a kaE? thats not gonna happen. I just kind of build a kade thinking, cam swap, intake, header, and a few little things would have me at atleast like 170 or something but im lucky if its even that..haha. your looking for almost double that..
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Originally Posted by USMCDrifter
(Post 388847)
This question still hasn't been answered . . .
What? I can't agree with this, an SR swap is dirt cheap now. I've seen people get pushed into a 300hp SR for just over 3k, that's installed, running and with the shop saying "if it messes up, we'll fix it at no charge". What type of racing are you doing? You still haven't answered this question. . . Oh and "all those Honda guys" out there, are running very fast low displacement cars. In autocross, it's not about power, it's all in the driver. How fast your car is doesn't really matter if you don't know where your braking zones are. In road racing, those same Honda guys, that you just tried to diss, are out there setting records in B18's with intake and header back exhaust in IT or ITC. So I ask again, which type of racing are you planning on doing with the "SCCA" and what class do you plan on participating in? You've got several SCCA members on this site that can help you if you let them know this little factoid and you've got me, a former SCCA member and current NASA member, that would be more than willing to help class you. But so far nothing you've talked about makes any sense. LOL and i dont know where this classing deal came from the thread says 300hp ka. |
Time to start picking this apart . . . .
Originally Posted by sneezmaster112
(Post 388854)
oh god yeah they have record all over the Improved touring classes Im right now just building the 240sx its going to be in the radial sport class (club racing)
Here are ALL of the listings for club racing from the source itself, the SCCA Car Classification The following are the 30 classes that compete in SCCA Club Racing National events. In some cases, the cars in the Club Racing classes have a sister series within the professional ranks, allowing many drivers to easily move to professional status from the competitive background of Club Racing. Indeed, many of America's best racecar drivers today, such as Sam Hornish Jr., Buddy Lazier, Boris Said, Scott Sharp, Al Unser Jr. and Jimmy Vasser participated in some class within SCCA's Club Racing programs. SHOWROOM STOCK CATEGORY Late-model, mass-produced street cars like those bought right off the showroom floor. Aside from a bolt-in roll cage and safety equipment, there are very few modifications allowed to the cars. If the car is older than 10 years, it can’t compete. Classed by performance potential into two classes: Showroom Stock B (SSB) and Showroom Stock C (SSC). Each class has over 30 different cars eligible to compete within that class. SSB is made up of entries like the Acura RSX-S, BMW Z-4, Honda Civic, Mazda MX-5 and Pontiac Solstice. SSC is the slower, but no less exciting Showroom Stock class and includes cars such as the Chevy Cobalt , Honda Civic Si, and Mazda3. Many of the drivers in Showroom Stock move up to compete in the SCCA Pro Racing Speed World Challenge® Championships. PRODUCTION CATEGORY Series produced cars, which are allowed a range of performance modifications while retaining their original design, structure and drive layout. There is no age limit, such as Showroom Stock, so Production includes many cars as old as 50 years and as new as current body styles. The four performance potential based classes include: E Production (EP), F Production (FP), G Production (GP) and H Production (HP). EP is the fastest of the Production classes with HP running the slowest in the category. Several cars in the Production classes can be run in more than one class, just by changing the engine between races. The ease of engine changes allows many Production drivers to enter more than one class at the Runoffs each year. Cars included in Production classes come from a diverse group ranging from the MG Midget, Turner, Fiat X1/9, Alfa Romeo Spyder, Austin Healey Sprite, and Lotus Super 7 to the BMW 325, Mazda Miata, RX-7, Nissan 240, Honda Civic, Suzuki Swift GTI and Toyota MR-2. STU & STO CATEGORY Eligible vehicles must be identifiable with the vehicles offered for sale to the public and available through the manufacturer's normal distribution channels in the US. The intent of the rules is to allow older World Challenge cars to compete in Club Racing with minimal modifications and allow new cars to be built to the same spec as well. No model years older than 1990 will be permitted. The STO (World Challenge GT based) target performance is 450hp. The STU (World Challenge Touring Car based) target performace is 250 hp. The competitiveness of any given car is not guaranteed. GRAND TOURING CATEGORY GT cars are purpose-built, highly modified “silhouette” replicas of series-produced sports sedans. GT cars are permitted tube-frame chassis with performance being equalized by allowing cars with smaller engines to compete at a lighter weight. GT-1 cars are the fastest of the category, and are the closest to the SCCA Pro Racing Trans-Am® Series. Several of the current front running cars in GT-1 are last year's Trans-Am cars, and many of these GT-1 drivers compete in select Trans-Am events throughout the season. GT-2, GT-3 and GT Lite cars get progressively lighter and less powerful. Cars include Toyota Celicas, Mazda RX-7s, Nissan 200SX, Honda Civics and Austin Mini Coopers, just to name a few. FORMULA CATEGORY The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars. They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula Atlantic (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA (FE), Formula Continental (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula Ford (FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee (FV). Many of the winged FA and FC cars, along with several of the non-winged FF cars are produced by some of the same companies that make Indy cars such as Lola, Van Diemen and Reynard. FA cars have motors that generate as much as 240hp. Motorcycle engines are the basis for the F1000 class where displacement is limited to 1000cc. The FC runs a stock 2-liter engine with about 150hp while the FF 1600 motors make around 120hp. FM utilizes a sealed Mazda rotary engine. FV includes many home-built cars, as well as cars built by proven manufacturers, and is one of the most competitive and popular classes in SCCA. FV entries all run 1200cc stock VW engines. F500s run small displacement, two-stroke engines like snowmobiles, and are one of the least expensive classes to run in SCCA. SPORTS RACING CATEGORY There are four classes of purpose-built road racing cars with full fiberglass bodies. Underneath, these cars are pure racing machines. The power plants in these cars vary from home-built "pieces and parts" engines to sealed identical motors. The C Sports Racing (CSR) and D Sports Racing (DSR) classes feature a variety of chassis including home-built, innovative designs and manufacturer produced cars. These classes evolved from the old modified category in the 1960s. Sports 2000 (S2) are open-cockpit, rear engine cars using a standard Ford 2000cc single overhead camshaft engine. The Spec Racer Ford (SRF) is a one-design, single seat car utilizing a sealed Ford engine. It is SCCA's largest class and continues to provide cost effective racing for over 800 competitors. By limiting the modifications and preparation costs, this class emphasizes driver ability over spending. SEDAN CATEGORY American Sedan (AS), comprised of Chevrolet Camaros, Pontiac Firebirds and Ford Mustangs, are production-based chassis with modified suspensions and brakes. Engines are carbureted 302 and 305 CID V-8s that have been balanced and blueprinted. TOURING CATEGORY In response to the ever increasing performance of today's street cars and to expand participation by various manufacturers, SCCA has developed a category for those high performance cars which because of their performance potential, required some changes to their wheel/tires and suspension components. Touring 1 (T1) features the Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Corvette ZO6, Porsche 911 and Ferrari 360. Front runners in Touring 2 (T2) include the Subaru WRX STI, Nissan 350z and the Ford Mustang GT; while Touring 3 (T3) is comprised with the likes of the Subaru WRX, Mazdaspeed Miata, Mini Cooper S (John Cooper Works Package) and the Chevrolet Cobalt SS. The latest addition to the Touring category is ST (ST) made up of cars such as the Chevrolet C6 Z06, Dodge Viper SRT-10, and the Ford GT. SPEC MIATA Close competition in similarly-prepared cars is the norm for the Spec Miata (SM) class. First and second generation Mazda Miatas have been fitted with all the usual safety equipment and a specific suspension package to keep the field level. Spec Miata is the largest and fastest growing class in SCCA Club Racing. REGIONAL ONLY CLASSES The next handful of classes are Regional Only classes and do not count toward National Points for the SCCA National Championship Runoffs. IMPROVED TOURING While maintaining the stock look and much of the stock interior as well as running on street/DOT tires, the Improved Touring (IT) categoryis broken down into five seperate classes based on performance. Improved Touring R (ITR) cars are the fastest, followed by ITS, ITA, ITB, ITC. IT provides an inexpensive means to get into racing. FORMULA S The Formula S (FS) class allows those open wheeled cars meeting safety regulations but not found in an existing class. A SPORTS RACING A Sports Racing (ASR) is a "catch-all" class that allows those with sports racer type of cars and non classed engines compete as long as the car meets all of the safety standards set by SCCA's GCR.
Originally Posted by sneezmaster112
(Post 388854)
i was going to do Improved Touring but the car was in such bad shape it was actually cheaper to go this way
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Originally Posted by sneezmaster112
(Post 388854)
now you seem pretty knowledge able with the scca and every manufacture has a car that is good in some class that is the reason the scca has so many classes but if you look last year and 3 previous years the GT3 class was won by a Nissan 240sx thats where my interest is in.
Originally Posted by sneezmaster112
(Post 388854)
I just DONT LIKE HONDAS thats me now the subject of a 300 hp Na kae why is that impossible? If you didnt read the earlier post i got a quote for a build for a 300+ hp kae.
LOL and i dont know where this classing deal came from the thread says 300hp ka. Aside from the safety provisions, cage, firesuit, SA-2005 helmet and automatic-fire-suppression system, you have to take into account all of the other things you'll need. 3 driver's schools a provisional, time trial and regional license endorsement an established log book lots of other items that are expensive, I mean, HELL just the drivers school total well over 10 grand. But I guess if you're building a 300hp KAE, you've got more than enough money to cover those bases. But if you've got that kind of cash, why are you posting about any of this? Ideas? You don't need ideas when you've got money, just buy what you need done and have it be over with. Why the theatrics. Now, as far as why I keep harping on classing, is because I really don't believe that you know what you're getting yourself into. It doesn't sound as if you've done much research and it doesn't really sound like you know what you're trying to do other than spend WAY more money than necessary to get to an end goal that is so far out of sight that a telescope is needed to see it. If you knew what you were getting into, you wouldn't worry about a 300hp KA24E, you'd be making a thread about the build process to have a 240 that fits directly into the category of racing that you're trying to achieve. Then again, there's no point of a build thread, there's no point of building the car if you're not even done with the necessary steps to even set foot on a track. |
Although this topic is closed I will chime in.
The GT3 KA24E engines roughly cost $9.5K to build. The work is so customn and blue printed just to get the work done will cost more than it is worth. These engines live on hours not years, and it makes the GT3 KAe a short term investment. Anyone in GT3 will tell you by far the KA24e is the most superior, and it is. It wins in it's class in more events. Realistically this forum that we are in is for basic beginners and novices that are here to understand the s-chassis, and the engine swaps that can be performed as well as street tuned add on's. We aren't really here to express the dynamic of the GT3 KAE engine, after all if you want one of those you will want to speak directly to those that are in the GT3 class so that you can get a better understanding of practicality. no one here is saying that it can't be done, what we are saying is unless you have the money to throw away or have massive sponsorships, don't even try it. I also haven't been up to date with GT3 but I believe that class is dead, because of the high cost to be in that class. |
Opened it, cuz I can . . . .can't wait to see the responses on this thread. . . .
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how's this for a response, shut up dave.
thread/ |
Originally Posted by jramosthe1st!
(Post 389073)
how's this for a response, shut up dave.
thread/ |
ouch...i'll behave.
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mashmellows taste the best roasted.
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Tuesday is coming . . . did you bring your coat . . .
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i agree your ka24E isn't your best choice, why not a ka24DE DOHC 2.4l? stock it runs about 155 horsepower. and you can get a core off or craigslist or even these forums for like $300 and rebuild it yourself. much more horsepower potential, comes with 160 in torgue if running perfect stock, and there's way more aftermarket parts available and cheaper.
Whoever said put a honda motor in there, **** that who likes hondas anways!?!? haha. that defeats the purpose of a nissan, this is club240. |
well i am not a Nissan bashing everything else type guy.. i cant stand those people..
however i will not engage this thread really because i am against people thinking they have to pull out all the stops to race... |
all i'm saying is that small displacement, high output engines don't last long.
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Originally Posted by jramosthe1st!
(Post 389112)
all i'm saying is that small displacement, high output engines don't last long.
to add to that, they aren't inexpensive, and I honestly don't see why someone without ANY racing experience behind the wheel would want to start off with something so expensive. Doesn't make sense. . . |
Originally Posted by jramosthe1st!
(Post 389112)
all i'm saying is that small displacement, high output engines don't last long.
My claim is that there is no replacement for displacement, and engines are more efficient with increased displacement. EEEH what ever. |
even a beefy v8 will not last long when pushed to it's limits, sure it will last longer, but no engine will last very long when your going to maximum output. the thing to keep in mind is that there's a trade off when hp is your goal. race car engines are the perfect example, all they need to do is finish the race, how ever long that may be.
there is also much truth to the old saying about no replacement for displacement, that's why i prefer nissan engines. nissans tend to have more cc's than the competitors. some may say that a 1.3-2.2l 4cl engine is proof of superior engineering, but i say it's a sign of a shorter lifespan. And that's just fort the 4cl engines, nissan follows this trend with most of their engines. but that's just my opinion so i could be wrong. |
opinions are like penises...everyone has one.
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Originally Posted by jramosthe1st!
(Post 389135)
some may say that a 1.3-2.2l 4cl engine is proof of superior engineering, but i say it's a sign of a shorter lifespan. And that's just fort the 4cl engines, nissan follows this trend with most of their engines. but that's just my opinion so i could be wrong.
The reasons why are simple. -Keep up on smog emissions -increased HP and torque -less wear and tear on internals -it takes less energy to make more power The last one I mentioned that it takes less energy to make more power is a very simple concept. Imagine that an engine is a vacuum. A vacuum with a larger displacement or liter size does not have to work as hard at any given rpm to suck air in. Larger piston/cylinder area's allow for larger valves within that surface area (for example a DOHC valve train), this improves the engines ability to induct air at a much easier rate since restrictions are reduced. Smaller pistons have to work harder at achieving induction since valve size is limited to piston/cylinder area. A term well mentioned would be valve shrouding. Larger displacement also reduces load which has alot to do with how the engine inducts air at any given RPM. That is why there is no replacement for displacement. |
Originally Posted by Biggamehit
(Post 389138)
opinions are like penises...everyone has one.
Oh yeah! Well my penis is enormous! |
yea i just hope the OP gets what we are tying to kick to him..... start little and work your way up and learn on the way.
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or don't go around posting about something that you really have no clue on . . .
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