Need some tips on building my n/a KA24DE
 

hey guys. so after scouring the web for info i've finally decided to build an all motor KA! it's mostly going to be used to auto-x, some light circuit racing, and fun nights out on the touge. haha i just wanted to throw out the idea i had and see if they were feasible and maybe if you guys had any tips. i guess any advice you guys have is what i'm lookin for. here's the setup i'm thinking about doin. just to clarify i'm not too worried about the costs, i just want to get stuff done right the first time kinda thing. haha thanks!

Xcessive intake manifold w/ ITB setup
*i haven't decided what ITB's to use. i've seen almost everybody just using the GSX ones but i was curious if there were other methods. also i thought this might be a better way to go then just hacking up the stock intake manifold.

Brian Crower stroker kit w/ full counterbalanced crank
*i'll probably stroke it out to 2.6L

ATI torque dampener crank pulley
* i've read this will help a bit with harmonics and letting the KA revv a bit higher since the stroker kit sucked the redline down a bit.

Built head using BC stage 2 or 3 cams, titanium valves & springs, new guides, headstuds, the whole works.

for the ECU i thinking of running with haltech. overall i've seen it performs 10x better than megasquirt.also i was going to try and run a MAP setup using the haltech since i'm switching to ITB's. any info on this would be awesome^_^

also what i was thinking of doing is running a water/meth injection system and maybe wire it to a switch. kind of like the systems made by AEM or snowe performance. i'll most likely be runnig 92 octane since i'll be DD this car as well. but when i'm at the track i'd like to flip the switch and run the meth injection at the track. i don't know if this can be done or not but it'd be awesome^_^

one other question i had was with the pistons & rods.. i don't really know which ones i should run.... so help on that would be much appreciated!

that's about all i can think of... if anybody has any other suggestions please let me know!

you're an ambitious fella aren't you, any reason why you didn't post this on nwn?

+1, haha

If you are doing autox (and I am assuming you are doing SCCA and not NASA) the mods you listed are going to put you in SM (which is going to take a lot of money and additional mods to be competitive in) not to mention just the mods you list are going to cost you $4k+. So why did you pick these mods? My advice would be if you really want to build an autox car, look over all the classing rules, decided what class you want to be in, then choose your mods based on that class.

haha let's just say that if this was on nwn it would've had lot more than 2 posts by now. hehe


well i'm going to be running a local auto-x down in bremerton,wa. also i'm going to be using the car for more than just auto-x, and the money really isn't an issue^_^ but thanks for the tho tips man!

like to see this set up on the dyno

What class are you going to run in? And are you rich or something???

the classes for bremerton autocross are by car type. not so much performance. haha it's wierd... but ya i'm not too concerned with classes. and also no i'm not rich. i wish, but working at the mall doesn't pay that great. lol but this build is going to take place over a pretty big time span. i'm not going to do everything all at once. so i'm doing my homework now and getting all the info i can.^_^

Oh ok, is this with SCCA or NASA?

with that stroker kit you'll b able to rev up to 8-9grand with no problem

beats me. haha i just know it as BSCC, bremerton sports car club. if there ends up being certain restrictions because of scca or nasa i'll just run my car in another venue.lol

really? that'd be awesome! cuz i heard that the stroker kit will limit your rpm's a bit. because you have a longer stroke now then stock. that's one of the reason i'm getting that torque dampener so i can make sure it reduces harmonics and i don't have my motor fall apart on me at 7k. haha but ya! that'd be awesome if i could hit that 8-9k range with no setbacks. thanks man

EM is a good alternative to SM however you get some crazy rides in EM.

I ran EM because my engine was constructed from parts ranging from 89 to 98 and i had no interior.

EM? lol what's that?

Its a class in SCCA autox

On that stroker kit you have to realize that there aren't cams designed for it. When you alter rod stroke ratio you are essentially changing cam timing, as well as cam duration, not necessarily its lift.
Personally I would get a stock stroke fully counter weighted crank and bore 1mm, (.040over) for the pistons. You will honestly have alot more fun with that and wouldn't have to worry about the increased upward piston momentum from the 2.6liter stroker kit, which would probably also need titanium retainers, and higher lift rate springs.

Check it out:
- I/H/E
- EGR Removal
- Electric Fans
- N60 MAF
- Lightweight flywheel (11lbs is ideal)
- Ported Intake Manifold
- Tune w/ SAFC

That should give you some great gains, and all without having to crack open your head or bottom in of the engine.

The Crank pulley is pretty expensive, and I don't believe it is significantly lighter than the stock one w/ a dampener. As far as the xcessive mani - you might be better off spending the money on what I posted above - if you are looking at some decent n/a mods. I have pretty much everything i mentioned here - I also have a ported TB, lightweight driveshaft... dyno will be coming soon.

You can get everything I posted here for probably under $2,000... including a tune.

I would say within the realm of $1300 unless you bought a new efan over a used from the wrecking yard, and an ecu tune that started at $600. Oh forgot about the drive shaft that must of cost a pretty amount of money.

Jason is your engine up and running yet?

Hey Vinnie

Not quite yet mang. I'm waiting on this ECU and TB to be shipped back to me, then we'll be popping these bad boys in the weekend after they arrive... i'm hoping for next weekend. Then off to the dyno shop!!!

Jramos was mentioning to me that a 64mm bore in the TB might be a bit excessive for a n/a application, and might in fact hamper performance, so i'm a little tentative about that. I'm hoping all these mods come together to allow this ka to breathe properly - and maybe get some decent #s with a good tune (thx u lc-1 wideband).

I have a few Q's about my IM core, i'll shoot you a text here in a little bit.

I don't think so the Honda H22 comes with a62mm TB stock, its a 2.2 liter engine.
Last I checked the F22c uses a 64mm TB and its only 2.2 liter. the upgrade for honda's F22c is 70mm in diameter.

Believe me 64mm is perfect for a 2.4 liter engine, I have the (CFM) velocity measured and calculated. You should gain more power in the top end, and george at MAX bore won't bore it if its unnecessary.


Honda H22a (7400RPM X 137.2 / 3456)= 293.77 CFM
Honda F22c (8200RPM X 131.57 / 3456)= 312.174 CFM
Nissan SR20det (7600RPM X 121.95 / 3456)= 268.177 CFM
Nissan KA24de (7200RPM X 145.79 / 3456)= 303.72 CFM

I'd say the KA is pretty on par using a 64mm TB.

care to share your findings?

Edited my post in the above post, look above your post..^^^^^^

I would also like to add what you want from an engine is almost near perfect in/out flow. At 64mm that equals 2.519" or the equivalent of a 2,3/4" exhaust. Most people use a 2,1/2" to 3" exhaust a larger TB will do nothing more but compliment the entire engine. This would allow smooth pulses for exhaust scavaging and intake velocity.

The main focus of a larger TB isn't necessarily velocity flow, that is only half the battle. The second part is it's opening which will allow more air molecules (air density) which is dependent on a few factors n=PV/(RT), this equation tells 2 things air temperature and atmospheric psi, which will give you air density. So if we were going to compare 2, 4 banger engines (both the same with the only differences of TB size), and put them side by side one which used a 60mmTB and the other using a 64mm TB. The same engine using the 64mm TB will consume more air density than the same engine using teh 60mm TB. Of course there are inherently some differences. With off the line throttle responce, and low end torque, versus high end HP. But the differences would be so small in loss of the low end under 3000RPM, that the significant gains are more beneficial.
Now the larger TB theory only works if you use a map based system, or use a MAF of equal or greater size to the TB.
In effect a larger TB does not work well with the stock G60, or G70 MAFS. Which apparently the G70 maf works well in combination with the 60mm TB.

so in other words if you get your TB bored and still have a stock maf then you really aren't gaining much until u upgrade to a larger maf and larger exhaust so that way everything flows as smooth as possible and each upgrade compliments the others..... makes since to me...
Eric

So if money isn't an issue, why is there a thread here? Just take it to a reputable tune shop, tell them what you want and how you want it and write a check.

/thread

Forums are B.S to begin with. I'm only here out of shear boredom so this thread doesn't bother me.

Vinnie . . .there's a reason why I like you . . .and the above connotation in your post is exactly it . . .cynicism IS your strong point, LOL!

here's my objection to having a bored out tb on a na ka, imo the ecu is not tuned to accommodate for the additional flow nor is the fuel delivery adequate. i don't have data to back up my claims but i believe a better approach for a na ka would be to increased plenum volume and run a stock tb. someone correct me if i'm wrong, but don't honda engines use a map sensor and have larger injectors? if so, then i don't believe that just becuase a larger tb work well on a honda engine it can do the same for a nissan engine simply becuase they are not tuned the same. basically it all come down to tuning.

btw, dave do you know what my strong point is? this one -->.

Injectors are good for up to 225 crank HP or the equivalent of around 170~180 whp.

ECU tune is required for TB upgrade anyway since the upgrade requires a N60 MAF as the minimum for this.

No need to upgrade TB if the MAF diameter is not equal or greater than.

When I port/hone/extrude my manifolds for 64mm I let the individual know that an ecu tune and a larger MAF than stock is REQUIRED. SAFC is the minimum requirement for this bolt on.

hey guys, just wanted to say thanks for all the input. especially vinnie, and ecstacytotale. the reason i started this thread was just to get more info/input on the setup i'm thinking of doing.:thumb: