Possible Valve Problem - Engine Repair or Upgrade to SR20DET
12-13-2006, 09:11 PM
#1
Possible Valve Problem - Engine Repair or Upgrade to SR20DET
I have been experiencing a pretty constant stench, like a real bad
exhaust leak, whenever my windows or doors are open.
Also, when I rev it, I get some white smoke out the back until it
simmers down. And, finally, I have an intermittent rattle in the Valve Train area. (The rattle is somewhere between Cylinder 2 & 4, I believe.) I know it is not the timing chain or the guides, because I have been down that road, and removed the (2) timing chain guides, just like the Nissan Technical Service Bulletin says to. (That problem was last year.)
The problem that I am seeing now just started since I fixed my last problem about a month ago, which was some trouble with a "miss/rumbly idle" problem. That ended up being a bad injector and I replaced all 4. Now it runs great, but I have this problem.
Again, the symptoms are as follows:
1) Alot of oil seeping out somewhere down below and accumulating on the bottom of my engine & where I park as well.
2) Real bad burning smell, when the windows are open, like an exhaust leak smell, although I don't think there is an exhaust leak at all.
3) White smoke coming out the tail pipe, when I rev the engine.
4) An intermittent rattle somewhere in the Valve Train area.(not the Timing Chain!) - This rattle is only after warming up and only occurs during Idle. And does not occur all the time.
So, today I checked the oil and it is kinda low & really dark. I say "really dark", because I just dropped 4 quarts of Mobil 1 EP in there last month and it shouldn't be that dark just yet.
This engine only has a little over 150,000 on it, and KA24DE's are well known for going into the 200K's. The only thing that I can figure is that it might be a bad valve. I recently changed the Spark Plugs and none of them looked wet, with oil. If it is anything worse than the valves, than it may be looking like I will be doing my dream "SR20DET Swap/Upgrade" sooner than I
thought.
For now, I just put another quart of oil in there. Funny
thing is, It still runs great, despite all the symptoms. I am leaning
toward the bad valve idea, since the symptoms are Rattling sound emitting from the Valve Train, White Smoke from the exhaust, and Black Oil that is both seeping & burning.
So, there it is! That is the problem that I am experiencing. Not sure if I am ready, financially, to give up on this engine just yet, so, If I decide to just replace valve, should I replace all of the valves at the same time, or should I replace the entire Head Assembly. OR, Am I looking/suspecting in the wrong direction already?
As I say, for now it is still driving good, but another problem is that I have a State Inspection coming up in February, so I gotta get on top of this problem atleast before February.
Can anyone help?
exhaust leak, whenever my windows or doors are open.
Also, when I rev it, I get some white smoke out the back until it
simmers down. And, finally, I have an intermittent rattle in the Valve Train area. (The rattle is somewhere between Cylinder 2 & 4, I believe.) I know it is not the timing chain or the guides, because I have been down that road, and removed the (2) timing chain guides, just like the Nissan Technical Service Bulletin says to. (That problem was last year.)
The problem that I am seeing now just started since I fixed my last problem about a month ago, which was some trouble with a "miss/rumbly idle" problem. That ended up being a bad injector and I replaced all 4. Now it runs great, but I have this problem.
Again, the symptoms are as follows:
1) Alot of oil seeping out somewhere down below and accumulating on the bottom of my engine & where I park as well.
2) Real bad burning smell, when the windows are open, like an exhaust leak smell, although I don't think there is an exhaust leak at all.
3) White smoke coming out the tail pipe, when I rev the engine.
4) An intermittent rattle somewhere in the Valve Train area.(not the Timing Chain!) - This rattle is only after warming up and only occurs during Idle. And does not occur all the time.
So, today I checked the oil and it is kinda low & really dark. I say "really dark", because I just dropped 4 quarts of Mobil 1 EP in there last month and it shouldn't be that dark just yet.
This engine only has a little over 150,000 on it, and KA24DE's are well known for going into the 200K's. The only thing that I can figure is that it might be a bad valve. I recently changed the Spark Plugs and none of them looked wet, with oil. If it is anything worse than the valves, than it may be looking like I will be doing my dream "SR20DET Swap/Upgrade" sooner than I
thought.
For now, I just put another quart of oil in there. Funny
thing is, It still runs great, despite all the symptoms. I am leaning
toward the bad valve idea, since the symptoms are Rattling sound emitting from the Valve Train, White Smoke from the exhaust, and Black Oil that is both seeping & burning.
So, there it is! That is the problem that I am experiencing. Not sure if I am ready, financially, to give up on this engine just yet, so, If I decide to just replace valve, should I replace all of the valves at the same time, or should I replace the entire Head Assembly. OR, Am I looking/suspecting in the wrong direction already?
As I say, for now it is still driving good, but another problem is that I have a State Inspection coming up in February, so I gotta get on top of this problem atleast before February.
Can anyone help?
12-14-2006, 09:29 PM
#2
i can maybe explain some of you problems but i have a few questions that would help me further understand what might be going on, here are two;
1. is this something that just stated on its own one day or could it have been the result of abouse?
2. have you changed the oil since you replaced the injectors?
but anyways, as for your high levels of oil cunsumption/leaks depending on your answer to the questions i can conclude if it is realy cunsomption or a leak. right now i say it's a leak.
as for the dark oil it could be related to you problem with the injector you had earlier.
if your injector(s) were flooding your engine some of that unburnt gas could have made it way past the rings and into the oil. gas in your oil will turn it black even a small amout, this would also be responsibel for you exaust smell. if there is some fuel in you oil then it is burning as your engine heats up.
white smoke i can't explain right now but the rattle might just be from the age of the engine. nissan engines tend to get noisey as they age. these noises can be a stretched chain, bad guide, or lifters.
i don't think (hope, realy) you have a bad vaule, but a leak down test is the easyest way to find out. if you don't want to spend about $80 fro one you can make one for about $20 heres a link that helped me .http://www.motorcycleproject.com/mot.../leakdown.html
and finaly, the bad news. if you live in a state where smog checks are requiered your dream swap might not be legal
it's late so some of the things i typed might not be clear if i can be of any help just ask
1. is this something that just stated on its own one day or could it have been the result of abouse?
2. have you changed the oil since you replaced the injectors?
but anyways, as for your high levels of oil cunsumption/leaks depending on your answer to the questions i can conclude if it is realy cunsomption or a leak. right now i say it's a leak.
as for the dark oil it could be related to you problem with the injector you had earlier.
if your injector(s) were flooding your engine some of that unburnt gas could have made it way past the rings and into the oil. gas in your oil will turn it black even a small amout, this would also be responsibel for you exaust smell. if there is some fuel in you oil then it is burning as your engine heats up.
white smoke i can't explain right now but the rattle might just be from the age of the engine. nissan engines tend to get noisey as they age. these noises can be a stretched chain, bad guide, or lifters.
i don't think (hope, realy) you have a bad vaule, but a leak down test is the easyest way to find out. if you don't want to spend about $80 fro one you can make one for about $20 heres a link that helped me .http://www.motorcycleproject.com/mot.../leakdown.html
and finaly, the bad news. if you live in a state where smog checks are requiered your dream swap might not be legal
it's late so some of the things i typed might not be clear if i can be of any help just ask
Last edited by jramosthe1st!; 12-14-2006 at 09:33 PM.
12-15-2006, 12:11 AM
#3
jramosthe1st!,
1) This problem started after I spent about 3 days straight trying to solve my last problem. My last problem was a Rough Idle and sometimes missing, but no pops. I tested the coil, replaced the Plugs, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Fuel Filter, MAF and cleaned out my K & N Air Filter, before I realized the probelm was that my #2 Injector was not working properly. I realized this when it started missing non-stop. I replaced all (4) injectors and it started running fine. Then I started noticing the problem that I mentioned here.
2) No, I have not changed the oil since I replaced the injectors, as I had just changed it a week before the Injector problem (beginning of November), and as I use Mobil 1 EP, it is not cheap oil.
Now, since I posted my problem here, I have started to try something. Kinda along the lines of what it seems like one of your suspicions may be, I am suspecting that in a best-case scenario: Maybe with all the running badly (on only 3 Injectors at times) did some damage, in the ways of Carbon buildup, etc.
I am figuring before I get too crazy trying to fix something that may not be broken, I better try some stuff.
So, What I did is as follows:
Last night I purchased a 16 ounce can of Sea Foam Engine Treatment. First, I removed my brake assy vacuum line & with the engine running I slowly poured about 8 ounces of the Sea Foam Engine Treatment into the hose. I let the engine run for about 2 minutes sucking the hose dry & then put the line back on and let the engine run an additional 30 minutes.
Then, I turned off the engine, and dumped the rest (8 ounces) of the can of Sea Foam Engine Treatment into my Oil port, on the valve cover. I drove to work, which is about a 30 minute drive one way. (I work 3rd shift....)
So, now, my intention is to go home in the morning (another 30 minute drive), drain my oil, fill it up with some cheaper oil, let it run for about 20 minutes, drain it again, change the Oil Filter out for a new Purolator One Oil Filter (currently a FRAM), and fill it up with New Mobil 1 EP, like I usually use.
I will then see if the problem still exists. Not sure if this will work, but I can tell you that judging from my drive to work last night, it already seems better. Time will tell.
As for the SR20DET Engine Swap, I am going to do it someday. Now is just bad timing for me, with the holidays & all. Also, I live in NJ and I don't think that the SMOG Check is an issue. Atleast not here.... And besides, I noticed that when you go to get your car inspected here, they don't even open the hood....they just shove their tester in your tailpipe and check it. Thanks for the heads-up though.
Like I said, I guess time will tell now.......
1) This problem started after I spent about 3 days straight trying to solve my last problem. My last problem was a Rough Idle and sometimes missing, but no pops. I tested the coil, replaced the Plugs, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Fuel Filter, MAF and cleaned out my K & N Air Filter, before I realized the probelm was that my #2 Injector was not working properly. I realized this when it started missing non-stop. I replaced all (4) injectors and it started running fine. Then I started noticing the problem that I mentioned here.
2) No, I have not changed the oil since I replaced the injectors, as I had just changed it a week before the Injector problem (beginning of November), and as I use Mobil 1 EP, it is not cheap oil.
Now, since I posted my problem here, I have started to try something. Kinda along the lines of what it seems like one of your suspicions may be, I am suspecting that in a best-case scenario: Maybe with all the running badly (on only 3 Injectors at times) did some damage, in the ways of Carbon buildup, etc.
I am figuring before I get too crazy trying to fix something that may not be broken, I better try some stuff.
So, What I did is as follows:
Last night I purchased a 16 ounce can of Sea Foam Engine Treatment. First, I removed my brake assy vacuum line & with the engine running I slowly poured about 8 ounces of the Sea Foam Engine Treatment into the hose. I let the engine run for about 2 minutes sucking the hose dry & then put the line back on and let the engine run an additional 30 minutes.
Then, I turned off the engine, and dumped the rest (8 ounces) of the can of Sea Foam Engine Treatment into my Oil port, on the valve cover. I drove to work, which is about a 30 minute drive one way. (I work 3rd shift....)
So, now, my intention is to go home in the morning (another 30 minute drive), drain my oil, fill it up with some cheaper oil, let it run for about 20 minutes, drain it again, change the Oil Filter out for a new Purolator One Oil Filter (currently a FRAM), and fill it up with New Mobil 1 EP, like I usually use.
I will then see if the problem still exists. Not sure if this will work, but I can tell you that judging from my drive to work last night, it already seems better. Time will tell.
As for the SR20DET Engine Swap, I am going to do it someday. Now is just bad timing for me, with the holidays & all. Also, I live in NJ and I don't think that the SMOG Check is an issue. Atleast not here.... And besides, I noticed that when you go to get your car inspected here, they don't even open the hood....they just shove their tester in your tailpipe and check it. Thanks for the heads-up though.
Like I said, I guess time will tell now.......
12-15-2006, 05:45 PM
#4
i hope your right about your suspision, it sounds very plausible. althought i've read of cars running like crap after the seafoam treatment, i've never used the stuff so i can't say anything about it one way or the other.
i knew i forgot to ask something last time, but your oil mobil 1 is a full synthetic. you do realise that if you have a high mileage engine and you begine to use full synthetics your seal will leak? from what i've read full synthetics are not recomended for brand new cars or high mileage cars. but if you begine to use them after your engine has been broken in and use them for ever then you should be fine.
personaly i wouldent do the sr swap for a number of reasons, but if you do then that up to you but you've listed a number of parts that you've replaced on you curent engine, all of which are very east to find localy. but can you say the same about the sr engine? anyways it's your money, all i'm saying is that i perfer my na ka over the sr any day.
i knew i forgot to ask something last time, but your oil mobil 1 is a full synthetic. you do realise that if you have a high mileage engine and you begine to use full synthetics your seal will leak? from what i've read full synthetics are not recomended for brand new cars or high mileage cars. but if you begine to use them after your engine has been broken in and use them for ever then you should be fine.
personaly i wouldent do the sr swap for a number of reasons, but if you do then that up to you but you've listed a number of parts that you've replaced on you curent engine, all of which are very east to find localy. but can you say the same about the sr engine? anyways it's your money, all i'm saying is that i perfer my na ka over the sr any day.
Last edited by jramosthe1st!; 12-15-2006 at 05:49 PM.
12-16-2006, 08:58 AM
#5
Yeah,
I hope I am right also. And my buddy at my work place claims that the Mechanics even use this stuff, so using it may be fine. I just don't know if that will solve the whole problem.
As for your comment about the type of oil.
Yes, I have heard it said that you should not use Mobil 1 on older cars, but I have been using Mobil 1 since I got this car, in 1999, with 70,000 miles on it & it is the only oil that keeps the engine & valve train quiet and running smooth.
As for your comment on the SR Swap & in reference to parts, yes, I know, but if & when the time comes it just seems like a waste to replace the engine with the same type, when the costs will be about the same & I could get better performance out of the deal while I am at it. And, if ya haven't already guessed it, If & when the time comes when this engine is deemed by me as no longer servicible, I am totally against buying a new car or another used car, when I know I can just put about $5000 or less towards this one and make it better in the process.....Just my philosophy as of late.
FYI, One time when I was under my car before I knew about the current problem I am having now, I noticed alot of oil on the bottom side of the car, so I decided to clean my underside & topside a little with Engine Degreaser with one of those sprayers at the do-it-yourself car wash. That was about 2 weeks ago & while it didn't get all of the buildup, at the bottom (on the frame & engine compartment) it did make it so that I may be able to identify whether it was a leak or not. I did this mainly because I had a previous issue a while back with a squeaky alternator belt & had been spraying stuff in there to quiet it down. So, I needed to do the spray cleaning to make sure that it wasn't just that stuff that I was seeing on the bottom of my oil pan.
More Information & current status:
As of my last post, I tried what I said I was going to try.
When I cam home after running teh car with the Sea Foam in there, my intention was to go home in the morning (another 30 minute drive), drain my oil, fill it up with some cheaper oil, let it run for about 20 minutes, drain it again, change the Oil Filter out for a new Purolator One Oil Filter (currently a FRAM), and fill it up with New Mobil 1 EP, like I usually use.
I would then see if the problem still exists. Not sure if this would work, but I can tell you that judging from my drive to work that night, it already seemed better. Time would tell.
Now, yesterday I came home & began to drain the old oil. Really thin & really black, and with some tiny chunks of sludge coming out at times. Ok, I understand this is to be expected, as I had just ran it with the Sea Foam in there. But, then I noticed that there was oil running down the front side of the oil pan at a pretty good rate. Enough that there was a drip from the pan to the ground at about once every second. I tried to follow it up a little, but everything looks all wet everywhere above & below it. I looked at the following locations for the leak: where the Valve Cover meets the Head, where the Head meets the Block, AND where the Block & Head meet the Timing Chain Cover. However, it doesn't seem to be leaking from any of these places, as they are relatively dry & oil free. The only place I see that it may be leaking from is maybe around the crankshaft pulley. I have the front air intake tube, radiator, electric fan, regular fan, and all the belts and hoses removed to make space. Today, Saturday, I will be removing the Crankcase Pulley and inspecting that area for the leak. May have to replace that seal. That may settle the leaking problem. As for the rattle, it was still there yesterday morning when the car was running. That rattle is only while reversing OR idleing (just after warm-up) OR when I turn the key off there would be a last second rattle before the engine stopped. So, I am thinking that the RATTLE, the SMELL, the LEAKING OIL.....They may or may not all be related to each other. So, while I have all this stuff taken off the front, I am actually considering going even further and taking the Valve Cover off the Head and looking at stuff and then taking the Head off of the Block and looking at stuff. The Sea Foam could have already cleaned whatever it needed to clean, but if anything is still wrong I am suspecting that it could be 1 or more of the valves. Only reason that I don't suspect the Head Gasket or the Piston Rings, is that my performance doesn't seem any different. Still have lots of power and smooth acceleration...... I am, However, concerned with the valves maybe having bad stem seals or something.
If I am going to mess with the valves, would I just be better off replacing the entire Head assy, with a rebuilt one?
What do you think about all of this so far?
Part of me says replace the Crankshaft Pulley Seal Parts and re-assemble everything and see what happens. Another part of me says while I have everything disassembled from the front of my engine, go further and inspect the Head Assy (both top & bottom).
I dunno what I will do next....
I hope I am right also. And my buddy at my work place claims that the Mechanics even use this stuff, so using it may be fine. I just don't know if that will solve the whole problem.
As for your comment about the type of oil.
Yes, I have heard it said that you should not use Mobil 1 on older cars, but I have been using Mobil 1 since I got this car, in 1999, with 70,000 miles on it & it is the only oil that keeps the engine & valve train quiet and running smooth.
As for your comment on the SR Swap & in reference to parts, yes, I know, but if & when the time comes it just seems like a waste to replace the engine with the same type, when the costs will be about the same & I could get better performance out of the deal while I am at it. And, if ya haven't already guessed it, If & when the time comes when this engine is deemed by me as no longer servicible, I am totally against buying a new car or another used car, when I know I can just put about $5000 or less towards this one and make it better in the process.....Just my philosophy as of late.
FYI, One time when I was under my car before I knew about the current problem I am having now, I noticed alot of oil on the bottom side of the car, so I decided to clean my underside & topside a little with Engine Degreaser with one of those sprayers at the do-it-yourself car wash. That was about 2 weeks ago & while it didn't get all of the buildup, at the bottom (on the frame & engine compartment) it did make it so that I may be able to identify whether it was a leak or not. I did this mainly because I had a previous issue a while back with a squeaky alternator belt & had been spraying stuff in there to quiet it down. So, I needed to do the spray cleaning to make sure that it wasn't just that stuff that I was seeing on the bottom of my oil pan.
More Information & current status:
As of my last post, I tried what I said I was going to try.
When I cam home after running teh car with the Sea Foam in there, my intention was to go home in the morning (another 30 minute drive), drain my oil, fill it up with some cheaper oil, let it run for about 20 minutes, drain it again, change the Oil Filter out for a new Purolator One Oil Filter (currently a FRAM), and fill it up with New Mobil 1 EP, like I usually use.
I would then see if the problem still exists. Not sure if this would work, but I can tell you that judging from my drive to work that night, it already seemed better. Time would tell.
Now, yesterday I came home & began to drain the old oil. Really thin & really black, and with some tiny chunks of sludge coming out at times. Ok, I understand this is to be expected, as I had just ran it with the Sea Foam in there. But, then I noticed that there was oil running down the front side of the oil pan at a pretty good rate. Enough that there was a drip from the pan to the ground at about once every second. I tried to follow it up a little, but everything looks all wet everywhere above & below it. I looked at the following locations for the leak: where the Valve Cover meets the Head, where the Head meets the Block, AND where the Block & Head meet the Timing Chain Cover. However, it doesn't seem to be leaking from any of these places, as they are relatively dry & oil free. The only place I see that it may be leaking from is maybe around the crankshaft pulley. I have the front air intake tube, radiator, electric fan, regular fan, and all the belts and hoses removed to make space. Today, Saturday, I will be removing the Crankcase Pulley and inspecting that area for the leak. May have to replace that seal. That may settle the leaking problem. As for the rattle, it was still there yesterday morning when the car was running. That rattle is only while reversing OR idleing (just after warm-up) OR when I turn the key off there would be a last second rattle before the engine stopped. So, I am thinking that the RATTLE, the SMELL, the LEAKING OIL.....They may or may not all be related to each other. So, while I have all this stuff taken off the front, I am actually considering going even further and taking the Valve Cover off the Head and looking at stuff and then taking the Head off of the Block and looking at stuff. The Sea Foam could have already cleaned whatever it needed to clean, but if anything is still wrong I am suspecting that it could be 1 or more of the valves. Only reason that I don't suspect the Head Gasket or the Piston Rings, is that my performance doesn't seem any different. Still have lots of power and smooth acceleration...... I am, However, concerned with the valves maybe having bad stem seals or something.
If I am going to mess with the valves, would I just be better off replacing the entire Head assy, with a rebuilt one?
What do you think about all of this so far?
Part of me says replace the Crankshaft Pulley Seal Parts and re-assemble everything and see what happens. Another part of me says while I have everything disassembled from the front of my engine, go further and inspect the Head Assy (both top & bottom).
I dunno what I will do next....
12-16-2006, 01:20 PM
#6
replacing your crank seal it about 2 hours of work depending on how mechanicly incluined you are it will be less and only about $5. i always go for whats easy and cheap first and work from there.
taking the valve cover off and looking around is simple enough to do but if you do decide to rebuild there is new need to buy another head. if you can do with out your car for about two weeks just reabuild the one you have, it's much cheaper.
taking the valve cover off and looking around is simple enough to do but if you do decide to rebuild there is new need to buy another head. if you can do with out your car for about two weeks just reabuild the one you have, it's much cheaper.
12-16-2006, 02:30 PM
#7
Yeah,
2 weeks is kinda long. And it's gonna start getting cold again next week probably, to boot.
Just got home from Work (OT) late today.
Daylight is spent.
I am starting the seal (got a kit) & maybe removing the Head (got a kit for all those gaskets too) early tomorrow morning, for inspection.
Have you ever removed the Head on a 1992 KA24DE DOHC 240SX? Thinking about removing the Head and inspecting the bottom, and maybe pulling out valves to see how they look....
What do you think? Any experience there?
I have been reading through my Chilton's manual, but it looks like it is kinda vague. Specifically in how to remove the Head and still get the CAMS, CAM SPROCKETS, & CHAIN back on the same way you took them off!) And the pictures aren't much help either.
I"ll check back later.
Later,
Red.
2 weeks is kinda long. And it's gonna start getting cold again next week probably, to boot.
Just got home from Work (OT) late today.
Daylight is spent.
I am starting the seal (got a kit) & maybe removing the Head (got a kit for all those gaskets too) early tomorrow morning, for inspection.
Have you ever removed the Head on a 1992 KA24DE DOHC 240SX? Thinking about removing the Head and inspecting the bottom, and maybe pulling out valves to see how they look....
What do you think? Any experience there?
I have been reading through my Chilton's manual, but it looks like it is kinda vague. Specifically in how to remove the Head and still get the CAMS, CAM SPROCKETS, & CHAIN back on the same way you took them off!) And the pictures aren't much help either.
I"ll check back later.
Later,
Red.
12-16-2006, 04:45 PM
#8
the only head i've removed off of a 240 is nine, an '89. just follow the directions am you should be fine reread if you have to it's not that hard just really time consuming. that's why i sudgested you do a leak down test. you'll get the answers you need with out any real work.
12-19-2006, 06:50 AM
#9
UPDATE
Well,
I figured out that my rattling sound is due to a cable harness, wedged between the Firewall and the back of the valve cover. Also, the fact that one of Motor Mounts is totally shot (Have some HardRace JDM Mounts on order). So, no rattle to worry about after I change out the motor mount hopefully. And if not, well, then I'll just turn the music louder.
Anyway,
Found oil leaking from the Crankshaft Oil seal - Replaced.
Found water leaking from the Water Pump - Replaced.
Found what looks like a long-time leakage of Power Steering fulid - wiped as much as I could up and tightened rubber hoses up on all ends.
Been wiping up oil / oil buildup from all over, in the under areas - Hopefully, I will be able to keep this more under control. Have trouble getting it all, may have to go to the car wash, with a can of Gunk Engine Brite & some kinda bristle brush to get it all, but that will be later.
Replaced the oil pan gasket and put it back on the car.
There was really no oil in the exhaust area, but I have a New O2 SENSOR to install, just in case my Bad Injector issue fried it or something.
Plan on changing the PCV Valve this morning and then I will decide what is next....
When I started this project I was intent on taking the head off & having a look at the Valves and then replacing the Head Gasket, the Intake Gasket, and the Exhaust Header Gasket.
Not so sure I wanna do that anymore, as I don't even seem to be able to get the the Fuel Rail off in order to remove the Air Intake. I removed the gas pressure by removing the rubber lines and removed all of the bolts that I see on the passenger side area of it, but now it looks as if there is something holding it tight from the rear of the Head.....
Part of me says: I should put it back together as much as I need to in order to perform a compression test......Whatever that'll take, as I have never tried it....I purchased a Compression Test Kit last night.
The other part says: I am half way there, maybe I should press on and remove the Head, but so far, I don't see how to get the Intake Off & not sure that I should.....
If I can't find further detailed instructions on how to do it, then I may just install the New PCV, New O2 Sensor, New Motor Mounts, put enough back together to do a compression test, and figure out how to do this compression test.
If the compression test shows good results, I will put everything back together, dump 4 quarts of cheapy oil in there & a cheapy oil filter, and run it for a couple hours to get the rest of the Sea Foam out. Then put my Mobil 1 EP & New Oil Filter on and see what happens.
If the compression test fails, then I will definitely be looking for those "detailed instructions" of a Head Gasket Job.
Anyone know the easiest way to get the Fuel Rail & Intake off?
I still wanna look under the intake for a bunch of stuff that has dropped in there over the years, and specifically, a radiator bracket that I dropped in there yesterday.
Also, Any ideas for the compression tests are more than welcome...
By the way, Oil Pan job was fun, NOT!
Thanks everyone,
Red.
I figured out that my rattling sound is due to a cable harness, wedged between the Firewall and the back of the valve cover. Also, the fact that one of Motor Mounts is totally shot (Have some HardRace JDM Mounts on order). So, no rattle to worry about after I change out the motor mount hopefully. And if not, well, then I'll just turn the music louder.
Anyway,
Found oil leaking from the Crankshaft Oil seal - Replaced.
Found water leaking from the Water Pump - Replaced.
Found what looks like a long-time leakage of Power Steering fulid - wiped as much as I could up and tightened rubber hoses up on all ends.
Been wiping up oil / oil buildup from all over, in the under areas - Hopefully, I will be able to keep this more under control. Have trouble getting it all, may have to go to the car wash, with a can of Gunk Engine Brite & some kinda bristle brush to get it all, but that will be later.
Replaced the oil pan gasket and put it back on the car.
There was really no oil in the exhaust area, but I have a New O2 SENSOR to install, just in case my Bad Injector issue fried it or something.
Plan on changing the PCV Valve this morning and then I will decide what is next....
When I started this project I was intent on taking the head off & having a look at the Valves and then replacing the Head Gasket, the Intake Gasket, and the Exhaust Header Gasket.
Not so sure I wanna do that anymore, as I don't even seem to be able to get the the Fuel Rail off in order to remove the Air Intake. I removed the gas pressure by removing the rubber lines and removed all of the bolts that I see on the passenger side area of it, but now it looks as if there is something holding it tight from the rear of the Head.....
Part of me says: I should put it back together as much as I need to in order to perform a compression test......Whatever that'll take, as I have never tried it....I purchased a Compression Test Kit last night.
The other part says: I am half way there, maybe I should press on and remove the Head, but so far, I don't see how to get the Intake Off & not sure that I should.....
If I can't find further detailed instructions on how to do it, then I may just install the New PCV, New O2 Sensor, New Motor Mounts, put enough back together to do a compression test, and figure out how to do this compression test.
If the compression test shows good results, I will put everything back together, dump 4 quarts of cheapy oil in there & a cheapy oil filter, and run it for a couple hours to get the rest of the Sea Foam out. Then put my Mobil 1 EP & New Oil Filter on and see what happens.
If the compression test fails, then I will definitely be looking for those "detailed instructions" of a Head Gasket Job.
Anyone know the easiest way to get the Fuel Rail & Intake off?
I still wanna look under the intake for a bunch of stuff that has dropped in there over the years, and specifically, a radiator bracket that I dropped in there yesterday.
Also, Any ideas for the compression tests are more than welcome...
By the way, Oil Pan job was fun, NOT!
Thanks everyone,
Red.
12-19-2006, 10:54 AM
#10
Air Intake is almost impossible to get off
Ok,
Replaced the PCV Valve, that was fun, NOT. Well, It was better than the Oil Pan. Replace the O2 Sensor also.
I finally got the Fuel Rail off. It was tricky, but there was a nut on a bolt that sticks out of the cylinder head, on the left hand side underneath. Once I was able to get to it, I got the Fuel Rail off. Ripped a rubber tube that connects it down in behind the back of the cylinder head. I will have to figure out how to get a new tube down in there later....
Took all of the bolts off of the top half of the Intake Manifold, except the ones that are on the bottom supports of the Intake ports. Ok, those look a little hard to get to......Especially the one all the way on the left side. I think I will hold off on the Intake for now & see if anyone knows some easier way......
It almost looks like all this stuff is designed to be done with the engine outside the car....
Later,
Red.
Replaced the PCV Valve, that was fun, NOT. Well, It was better than the Oil Pan. Replace the O2 Sensor also.
I finally got the Fuel Rail off. It was tricky, but there was a nut on a bolt that sticks out of the cylinder head, on the left hand side underneath. Once I was able to get to it, I got the Fuel Rail off. Ripped a rubber tube that connects it down in behind the back of the cylinder head. I will have to figure out how to get a new tube down in there later....
Took all of the bolts off of the top half of the Intake Manifold, except the ones that are on the bottom supports of the Intake ports. Ok, those look a little hard to get to......Especially the one all the way on the left side. I think I will hold off on the Intake for now & see if anyone knows some easier way......
It almost looks like all this stuff is designed to be done with the engine outside the car....
Later,
Red.
12-20-2006, 05:37 PM
#11
Contributing Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,550
Dude. Im in the middle of rebuilding my ka from the ground up (damn timing chain at 114k.), and i can tell you first hand that the KA is absolutely one of the easiest motors to work on. I got the entire block out of the car and totally dismantled (this included scrubbing every bit of baked on grease with a brush off of it) in a day... and thats just taking my time, reflecting on what to do next while standing back smoking a cigarette. Unfortunately, funding and lack of time are keeping me from finishing it at the moment lol.
And yes, the best way to do it is with the engine out of the car. Undo the exhaust manifold and take the nut off the motor mount, then go to the bottom and that that nut off of the intake side. Unbolt everything (including tranny if ya wanna leave it in) and just pull it on out. Piece of cake.
And yes, the best way to do it is with the engine out of the car. Undo the exhaust manifold and take the nut off the motor mount, then go to the bottom and that that nut off of the intake side. Unbolt everything (including tranny if ya wanna leave it in) and just pull it on out. Piece of cake.
12-20-2006, 09:10 PM
#12
UPDATE - Putting back together
LA_phantom_240,
Thanks Dude, but it looked like there was alot of little stuff in the back of the Cylinder Head that couln't be reach as well. And I don't have the time, equipment, or a place to pull the motor right now.
Also, Doesn't look like anyone is in a hurry to OR has a Head Gasket Job guide to provide. So, wanting to finish this before the holidays set in, I returned the $108 Head Gasket Kit & just purchased a new Valve Cover Gasket individually. I started putting stuff back together, and I figure between the Sea Foam treatment & all the things that I have changed and all the things below, maybe my problems will be solved.
However, If I still have problems after this, I will still be looking for a Head Gasket Job Guide probably.
Anyway, didn't get much time to work on the car, but here is what happened today:
Re-installed all Intake Bolts that I removed previously.
Replaced the bad Vacuum Line that connects the Fuel Rail to behind the Cylinder Head.
Re-installed Fuel Rail.
Replaced the Crankcase Air Line that goes from the Air Intake Tube to the Valve Cover.
Found a huge crack in the Brake Vacuum Line, close to where it comes off the Intake Manifold & replaced that.
Found that there is a missing bolt, which holds Exhaust Down-Pipe to the Tranny Housing & replace it.
Cleaned up all the Pulleys and cleaned up more around all areas of the Motor.
Still waiting for New Motor Mounts, Radiator Hoses, and Stabilizer Bar End Links that I ordered. Should have everything by Friday morning, which is fine, since I have OT at work tomorrow Thursday).
Now,
Maybe some of you can give some insight on the Upper Timing Chain Cover & Valve Cover re-installation.
1) I know that the Upper Timing Chain Cover gets a RTV Seal made, but should there be a bead of RTV on the bottom mating surface, where the Head Gasket is on top of the bottom Timing Chain Cover? Or just on the front surface of the Cylinder Head?
2) I have searched around the internet & There seems to be different schools of thought on RTV & the Valve Cover/Valve Cover Gasket. Some people show, just applying RTV to the Half-Holes in the front & back of the top of the Cylinder Head. Other people show that plus putting a bead of RTV all the way around the edges of the Cylinder Head. And I have never seen NOR applied it to the center Spark Plug holes. I have brand new Valve Cover Gasket, which fits this Valve Cover perfectly nice & tight.
I know that applying RTV to the Half-Holes in the front & back of the top of the Cylinder Head is necessary.
However, is the bead of RTV all the way around the edges of the Cylinder Head really necessary?
Thanks,
RedHorse.
Thanks Dude, but it looked like there was alot of little stuff in the back of the Cylinder Head that couln't be reach as well. And I don't have the time, equipment, or a place to pull the motor right now.
Also, Doesn't look like anyone is in a hurry to OR has a Head Gasket Job guide to provide. So, wanting to finish this before the holidays set in, I returned the $108 Head Gasket Kit & just purchased a new Valve Cover Gasket individually. I started putting stuff back together, and I figure between the Sea Foam treatment & all the things that I have changed and all the things below, maybe my problems will be solved.
However, If I still have problems after this, I will still be looking for a Head Gasket Job Guide probably.
Anyway, didn't get much time to work on the car, but here is what happened today:
Re-installed all Intake Bolts that I removed previously.
Replaced the bad Vacuum Line that connects the Fuel Rail to behind the Cylinder Head.
Re-installed Fuel Rail.
Replaced the Crankcase Air Line that goes from the Air Intake Tube to the Valve Cover.
Found a huge crack in the Brake Vacuum Line, close to where it comes off the Intake Manifold & replaced that.
Found that there is a missing bolt, which holds Exhaust Down-Pipe to the Tranny Housing & replace it.
Cleaned up all the Pulleys and cleaned up more around all areas of the Motor.
Still waiting for New Motor Mounts, Radiator Hoses, and Stabilizer Bar End Links that I ordered. Should have everything by Friday morning, which is fine, since I have OT at work tomorrow Thursday).
Now,
Maybe some of you can give some insight on the Upper Timing Chain Cover & Valve Cover re-installation.
1) I know that the Upper Timing Chain Cover gets a RTV Seal made, but should there be a bead of RTV on the bottom mating surface, where the Head Gasket is on top of the bottom Timing Chain Cover? Or just on the front surface of the Cylinder Head?
2) I have searched around the internet & There seems to be different schools of thought on RTV & the Valve Cover/Valve Cover Gasket. Some people show, just applying RTV to the Half-Holes in the front & back of the top of the Cylinder Head. Other people show that plus putting a bead of RTV all the way around the edges of the Cylinder Head. And I have never seen NOR applied it to the center Spark Plug holes. I have brand new Valve Cover Gasket, which fits this Valve Cover perfectly nice & tight.
I know that applying RTV to the Half-Holes in the front & back of the top of the Cylinder Head is necessary.
However, is the bead of RTV all the way around the edges of the Cylinder Head really necessary?
Thanks,
RedHorse.
12-21-2006, 02:34 PM
#13
Today, I actually made some progress, after working almost 5 hours OT at work and coming home at around 1PM.
Re-installed the Timing Chain Cover & Valve Train Cover. I don't really have time at this point, as I want my car to be on the road by Friday or Saturday at the latest:
1) I chose to RTV only just on the front surface of the Cylinder Head, and not the bottom mating surface, where the Head Gasket is on top of the bottom Timing Chain Cover.
2) And I chose to just RTV Half-Holes in the front & back of the top of the Cylinder Head.
Then, I saw the UPS guy drive up. WooHoo. New HardRace Motor Mounts, right on time! I jacked her up and removed the old ones, and let me tell ya, the driver's side mount came off in 2 pieces. Once I installed the new motor mounts, like Day & Night! I can't even shake the motor around now at all.
Huge difference!
Oh yeah, a Transmission Mount came along with. Anyone know what point to jack up at, to install that one?
Tomorrow, Onto re-installation of the Pulleys, Belts, New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, Fans & Shroud, Radiator, and Stabilizer Bar & New End Links for it, that Advance Auto should have received by morning. Also gotta put back all the hoses, wires, Intake Air Tube, and New Radiator Hoses, if they arrive.
So, a full day ahead, when I get home from work that is......Hehe.
Later,
RedHorse64.
Re-installed the Timing Chain Cover & Valve Train Cover. I don't really have time at this point, as I want my car to be on the road by Friday or Saturday at the latest:
1) I chose to RTV only just on the front surface of the Cylinder Head, and not the bottom mating surface, where the Head Gasket is on top of the bottom Timing Chain Cover.
2) And I chose to just RTV Half-Holes in the front & back of the top of the Cylinder Head.
Then, I saw the UPS guy drive up. WooHoo. New HardRace Motor Mounts, right on time! I jacked her up and removed the old ones, and let me tell ya, the driver's side mount came off in 2 pieces. Once I installed the new motor mounts, like Day & Night! I can't even shake the motor around now at all.
Huge difference!
Oh yeah, a Transmission Mount came along with. Anyone know what point to jack up at, to install that one?
Tomorrow, Onto re-installation of the Pulleys, Belts, New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, Fans & Shroud, Radiator, and Stabilizer Bar & New End Links for it, that Advance Auto should have received by morning. Also gotta put back all the hoses, wires, Intake Air Tube, and New Radiator Hoses, if they arrive.
So, a full day ahead, when I get home from work that is......Hehe.
Later,
RedHorse64.
12-25-2006, 02:11 AM
#14
Back together - Runs great! But Overheating now!
Well,
All back together.
Got it all back together on Saturday.
Put the Pulleys, Belts, New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, Fans & Shroud, Radiator, New Radiator Hoses, Stabilizer Bar/New End Links, and all the hoses & wires back on where everything goes.
Installed the Tranny Mount, using the little square nub that looks like it is actually probably made to be a jacking spot. Anyway, just applied enough pressure to it to support the Tranny, removed all the nuts & then removed the crossmember. I think the Tranny shifted a little, as it was a little hard to line the crossmember back up, but I put the new Tranny Mount on the crossmember and got it back up on there successfully.
Huge difference, by the way. The old Tranny Mount was broken on one of the 2 sides, not to mention the New Tranny Mount is attached by rubber on 3 sides. Now, When I start the car, I can really feel the motor running inside the cabin like never before, so the Tranny & Motor Mounts must have been broken for a long time.....Maybe as long as I have owned the car (1999).
So, as I said, all back together. I filled the Radiator & Overflow Resevoir with a 50/50 mixture of Antifreeze/Water. I put the cheapy oil in & the cheapy filter on, ran it until it warmed up, and drained/removed it all. Then, I put the Mobil 1 EP in and a New Oil Filter as well. Warmed it up and all seemed fine, runs great, with no white smoke coming out the back.
However, now if I leave it running for any more than a warm-up, it is overheating. I have to check my manual for where the Thermostat is, I guess.... I was pretty sure I put everything back where it goes, electrically, but I double-checked anyway. I don't think it is the Water Pump, as it is Brand New and looked fine out of the box. In fact, I remember spinning it and making sure it turned on both sides before I installed it.
I suppose it is possible that the Thernostat is bad or has a bad connection, so I guess I will try to locate that.
Can't imagine what I may have did wrong to cause this, as it didn't ever overheat before I took it apart.........
Anyone have suggestions?
Later,
RedHorse64.
P.S.: Merry Christmas!
All back together.
Got it all back together on Saturday.
Put the Pulleys, Belts, New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, Fans & Shroud, Radiator, New Radiator Hoses, Stabilizer Bar/New End Links, and all the hoses & wires back on where everything goes.
Installed the Tranny Mount, using the little square nub that looks like it is actually probably made to be a jacking spot. Anyway, just applied enough pressure to it to support the Tranny, removed all the nuts & then removed the crossmember. I think the Tranny shifted a little, as it was a little hard to line the crossmember back up, but I put the new Tranny Mount on the crossmember and got it back up on there successfully.
Huge difference, by the way. The old Tranny Mount was broken on one of the 2 sides, not to mention the New Tranny Mount is attached by rubber on 3 sides. Now, When I start the car, I can really feel the motor running inside the cabin like never before, so the Tranny & Motor Mounts must have been broken for a long time.....Maybe as long as I have owned the car (1999).
So, as I said, all back together. I filled the Radiator & Overflow Resevoir with a 50/50 mixture of Antifreeze/Water. I put the cheapy oil in & the cheapy filter on, ran it until it warmed up, and drained/removed it all. Then, I put the Mobil 1 EP in and a New Oil Filter as well. Warmed it up and all seemed fine, runs great, with no white smoke coming out the back.
However, now if I leave it running for any more than a warm-up, it is overheating. I have to check my manual for where the Thermostat is, I guess.... I was pretty sure I put everything back where it goes, electrically, but I double-checked anyway. I don't think it is the Water Pump, as it is Brand New and looked fine out of the box. In fact, I remember spinning it and making sure it turned on both sides before I installed it.
I suppose it is possible that the Thernostat is bad or has a bad connection, so I guess I will try to locate that.
Can't imagine what I may have did wrong to cause this, as it didn't ever overheat before I took it apart.........
Anyone have suggestions?
Later,
RedHorse64.
P.S.: Merry Christmas!
Last edited by redhorse64; 12-25-2006 at 02:14 AM.
12-27-2006, 02:48 PM
#15
Overheating still!
Well,
I read my Chilton's Manual, read some postings around here, and decided to replace the Thermostat & attempt to purge all air out of the coolant system.
No help. Jacked up the front of the car, used the bleed valve on the coolant outlet, ran the heater at MAX.....even attempted to fill radiator with cap off and engine running.
In the end, nothing is working.....It keeps overheating!
The Electric Fan is coming on & off when it seems like it is supposed to. I know there shouldn't be much to this system, but I just don't understand what could be going wrong.
Anyone got any ideas?
Thanks,
Red.
I read my Chilton's Manual, read some postings around here, and decided to replace the Thermostat & attempt to purge all air out of the coolant system.
No help. Jacked up the front of the car, used the bleed valve on the coolant outlet, ran the heater at MAX.....even attempted to fill radiator with cap off and engine running.
In the end, nothing is working.....It keeps overheating!
The Electric Fan is coming on & off when it seems like it is supposed to. I know there shouldn't be much to this system, but I just don't understand what could be going wrong.
Anyone got any ideas?
Thanks,
Red.
Last edited by redhorse64; 12-27-2006 at 08:45 PM.