USMCDrifter

It kinda was, it was more of a joke based on truth. I don't know, I don't usually argue, and when I do argue, I don't argue with opinion, I argue using indisputable fact. This is why I mastered debate while making my teachers angry; they wanted me to base opinions on fact when all I would do is spit out fact after fact after fact. They would sit there and go, well he might as well be reading from the book, but at the end of the day, I won the debate, and the other person is still there wondering where their opinions went wrong.

Lesson to all the youngsters out there still going through school, if you want to take up debate, learn politics first.

-Stig

OutToWinPAHC

I could go on and on abot opinions, but bashing something from wheres its from is just wrong. Every individual manufacturer has its own nitch. Americans build cars for economy and cheap value and thats it for the most part. European diving dynamics on their high end cars are wonderful, but their electronics lack. And as for the Japanese, they merge economy and performace very well at a nice value. But to says its wothless because its American is BS. Were not gonna sit here and argue, but your statement that because its American has no merit.

yarou

iTrader: (1)

Their electronics lack? Read up about any recent ferrari, porsche, lamborghini, etc etc and you'll find nothing but cold hard numbers and a ton of it's electronic features. The only japanese car that takes advantage of electronics that I can think of is the r34 or maybe even honda's SH e-diff. Anyway, I'm not here to argue with who is better, just throwing out a bone.

IPWNU

True, True
Although a GSR isnt really a Grocery getter either

battosaii930

iTrader: (2)

lol well all i can say is that the 06+ zo6 may be american but its been spanking every other car in professional road racing atm so imo the zo6 is the best american car on the market today. i like the GTO but i dont think i can call that american lol.

ryguy

iTrader: (1)

The corvette isn't the best American car. It's the best car, PERIOD. For the price you pay and performance and quality you get, there is no car on this planet that beats it. And for the record, the quality of European cars has gone in the ****ter for the past decade. FACT. Look at J.D. Power and Consumer Reports. The Europeans are tied with American manufacturers and both trail behind the Japanese, with Americans making the biggest gains. As much as I hate Ford, if you havent noticed lately, they are winning awards for initial quality. Mercedes Benz, Volkswagen, and yes, your mighty BMW are lacking in quality lately.

USMCDrifter

That last sentence is completely untrue. When you drive one, you let me know.

Quality and American cars don't go hand in hand. It may be relatively good quality for what we have come to expect from an American car, but there's no way that it out classes, say a Mercedes S Class. Oh, it's not fair to compare it against an S Class? Okay, how about the S55 AMG.

My question always relates back to what have you driven and/or tested YOURSELF lately. OutToWinPAHC has driven the 07 Z06 so he has first hand experience on the car. The reason why I am able to compare the Z06 against other cars is because I've been in that car and cars of it's kind. The 355 Spyder, 360 Coupe, the SLR, the SL65 AMG, the S55 AMG, the S550 AMG, the S600, the S550, the M5, the 535, the 545, the 540, the M3, the 330, the 335 vert and coupe, the 328, the 325, the 318, the 323 . . . the list goes on and on, I've been in and driven the very best and worst of a lot of cars from Ferrari and Lamborghini to Mercedes and BMW all the way down to Kia and Hyundai. Each car has it's own appeal and own worth, but to put the Z06 on the same scale and pedigree as say a 545 or S55 . . . I don't see how you can do that. Yeah European cars cost more, but that's because you get more. There is NO reason why if I buy a 65,000 dollar American Super Car which is classed as an "Exotic" that it should feel like I'm sitting behind and grabbing the wheel of a Cobalt SS.

NOT SAYING IT DRIVES LIKE ONE, before you twist my words around. I'm talking about build quality, road manners, wind noise, etc.

To say that the Europeans are trailing Japanese manufactures, in what market? Economy cars, maybe, because that's what the Japanese do best, but to say that a Japanese sports car is going to out do something European is just untrue. I told you, I argue hard facts, I don't argue opinion. In the American, non-performance based market, I expect American and Japanese cars to do better. But in the luxury and performance market, you're going to be hard pressed to find a luxury car that outclasses a Bently or Rolls Royce, and to find sports cars that are on par with Ferrari or BMW is difficult. Jaguar is coming up in the game and Aston Martin has always killed the Sports-Luxury market. And before you say "Well guess who owns them, Ford" keep in mind that I know that, and it's not who owns the car makers it's where the car is made and who puts it together.

A Dodge Nitro simply isn't going to be put together like a C Class Mercedes.

-Stig

jramosthe1st!

iTrader: (1)

i wouldn't go as far as saying that the vett is the best car ever, but it definitely is up there. but yeah euros are getting a bad rap. i saw a report a month ago as well but i'd say the report was flawed because honda and toyota were #1 and #2 while meredes and bmw were somewhere at the bottom. but nissan was in the middle?

battosaii930

iTrader: (2)

and the thing about the japanese using euro car designs that may be true but the japanese are better known for taking somthing that already exist and making it better. i think its because of their culture look at tokyo one of the most populated cities in the world yet it has the lowest or close to the lowest crime rates in the world.. weird huh? lol

ryguy

iTrader: (1)

I didn't say that the Corvette was the best engineered or built car. For the money, the corvette is best. And I realize you have driven all those cars, but hard facts don't lie. More European cars have been taken for warranty servicing than Japanese cars, and European and American cars are tied as far as repairs made under warranty.

Initial Daniel

Damn. I wish I came in here earlier to voice my little opinion...LOL, but theres so many things I want to respond to, I just don't have the patience to anymore.

Idealistically, it would be nice to say that you can't judge a car based on where it came from (American, Japanese, European, etc.) but typically these assumptions are vaild because they are based on merit.

Sure, there are some American cars that are going to be great--but the general concensus is that they're built horribly.

Speaking from personal experience, I've worked in an electronics installation shop, and after taking apart so many cars year after year, most of the cars who's parts fail (I'm talking power window motors, door locks, etc) are AMERICAN cars. It's not to say that NO other car breaks down; stuff happens. The majority of factory part related failure as far as I've seen come from American cars (Mostly GM...I hate GM's.) That's just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

As far as generalities go, they are there for everything. They say black people play basketball the best, but of course not ALL black people play basketball. Although the majority of great NBA players ARE infact black!

...You can always argue and say "Steve Nash, MVP, Dirk, Blah blah blah", but the bottom line is, we stereotypically associate black people with basketball, just like stereotypically American cars are just built poorly.

Some of you might look to break the stereotypes, but they're all there, about everything; everyone! Just deal with it, I guess.

Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one, and they all stink.

The cars that got crushed in the article were ugly btw...lol.

jramosthe1st!

iTrader: (1)

nope facts don't lie, i know guys at work that say all japanese cars are crap and domestics are by far superior to japanese cars. but there have been so many ventures between manufacturers that you really can't say that any one manufacture makes great cars.

i don't care much for todays domestics but i sure love some of the 50's and 70's muscle cars like the 50's ('55-'57) bell air, 60's to mid 70's charger, the cuda, dart, i can go on but it's not necessary.

the fact of the matter is that recently someone took notice that european cars in general have had a number of issues that one would not expect with a such vehicle while japanese cars have not had such problems.

with that said i would like to add that these problems might be more a result of abuse or negligence rather than poor quality of faulty design. most of the bmws & benzs i've seen on the road are driven by kids how obviously didn't pay for the car so what do they care if anything happens to it. i could be wrong but it's just an opinion.

Ayuaddict

why are we argueing about who makes the best stock car?

why does this arguement remind me of something i debated over in 3rd grade?

interior quality?

did somebody say interior quality?

give me a 1800 pound RWD car with a turbo 4 and a cardboard dash.

this thread started with an article about street racing, you know, the stuff out of "The Fast and The Furious"

are you guys seriously generalizing cars into their country of origin?

rediculous?

...rediculous

RuizXIII

iTrader: (2)

YUTA FOR THE MOTHER ****ING ****ING ****ING WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Poor RWD Club for life!!!! **** comfort. **** interior quality

Initial Daniel

I GUESS you're right, Yuta, but I think you're prob. one of those guys that would sit in a car w/stripped interior on a milk crate, as long as you were able to drive properly...lmao.