Take a Stand Against the Madness; Stop the RIAA!
09-13-2003, 09:45 AM
#1
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Take a Stand Against the Madness; Stop the RIAA!
Take a Stand Against the Madness; Stop the RIAA!
The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is on a rampage, launching legal attacks against average Americans from coast to coast. Rather than working to create a rational, legal means by which its customers can take advantage of file-sharing technology and pay a fair price for the music they love, it has chosen to sue people like Brianna LaHara, a 12 year-old girl living in New York City public housing.
Brianna, and hundreds of other music fans like her, are being forced to pay thousands of dollars they do not have to settle RIAA-member lawsuits -- supporting a business model that is anything but rational. This crusade is generating thousands of subpoenas and hundreds of lawsuits, but not a single penny for the artists that the RIAA claims to protect.
Copyright law shouldn't make criminals out of 60 million Americans, and it's time for a change. Congress is going to hold hearings; we need your help to make sure that the public's voice is heard. Tell Congress that it's time to stop the madness!
sign the petition
http://www.eff.org/share/petition/
The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is on a rampage, launching legal attacks against average Americans from coast to coast. Rather than working to create a rational, legal means by which its customers can take advantage of file-sharing technology and pay a fair price for the music they love, it has chosen to sue people like Brianna LaHara, a 12 year-old girl living in New York City public housing.
Brianna, and hundreds of other music fans like her, are being forced to pay thousands of dollars they do not have to settle RIAA-member lawsuits -- supporting a business model that is anything but rational. This crusade is generating thousands of subpoenas and hundreds of lawsuits, but not a single penny for the artists that the RIAA claims to protect.
Copyright law shouldn't make criminals out of 60 million Americans, and it's time for a change. Congress is going to hold hearings; we need your help to make sure that the public's voice is heard. Tell Congress that it's time to stop the madness!
sign the petition
http://www.eff.org/share/petition/
09-13-2003, 10:32 AM
#4
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It seems I do nothing but go against the grain so here is another StanBo has to be a dick post.
I am not signing the petition.
I was all for mp3 downloading. Until I read a good article in PC Magazine. It was an editorial at the end of the magazine. The editor posted how he was not going to fight but was going to stop downloading.
Some of his reasons were this:
I am all for legal uploaded mp3s by unknowns but some record labels know what they are doing.
I do not work on books but I do photograph every event I attend and compete in. I would not like to have my work stolen and used for someone else (it has happened already). Things like custom avatars, photos and stories are copywrited for their author's protection.
I work hard on what I do and I would not like to see it be stolen because someone didn’t want to pay what I was charging. I do not charge yet but I was looking into setting up a service to at least cover the money my friends and I put out for this. I cover an event and use at least 15 rolls of film.
15 x 15 to develop one hour with Compact Disk = $225.00
So I love doing it for free but would like some help. Do you see where I am coming from? Stealing a MP3 from a major artist will hurt the company making the music but it will also hurt the privateer trying to scrap enough money together to keep their hobby/business afloat.
I love that one and it opened up my eyes a bit.
I was a rabid MP3 downloader. I listen to stuff then go get the CDs. You would be surprised at the difference in quality. Now I just go out and get a Compact Disk. Leave it in my truck and make an mp3 backup on my computer in the highest rip I can (328kbs). That way I still listen to them at my leisure anywhere in the house. My tape deck has not been used in ages and my Compact Disk changer is just sitting there.
Here is a good question:
Has anyone seen a 300+ Compact Disk changer that handles MP3s? That would be fantastic.
I am not signing the petition.
I was all for mp3 downloading. Until I read a good article in PC Magazine. It was an editorial at the end of the magazine. The editor posted how he was not going to fight but was going to stop downloading.
Some of his reasons were this:
If we download and the entertainment industry does not make music we will only be left untalented hacks.
I work on books and do not want them to be stolen.
I work hard on what I do and I would not like to see it be stolen because someone didn’t want to pay what I was charging. I do not charge yet but I was looking into setting up a service to at least cover the money my friends and I put out for this. I cover an event and use at least 15 rolls of film.
15 x 15 to develop one hour with Compact Disk = $225.00
So I love doing it for free but would like some help. Do you see where I am coming from? Stealing a MP3 from a major artist will hurt the company making the music but it will also hurt the privateer trying to scrap enough money together to keep their hobby/business afloat.
Downloading one song off of an album because it is the only one that is good is still stealing. That is like going into McDonalds and only taking the meat because the bun is not so good.
I was a rabid MP3 downloader. I listen to stuff then go get the CDs. You would be surprised at the difference in quality. Now I just go out and get a Compact Disk. Leave it in my truck and make an mp3 backup on my computer in the highest rip I can (328kbs). That way I still listen to them at my leisure anywhere in the house. My tape deck has not been used in ages and my Compact Disk changer is just sitting there.
Here is a good question:
Has anyone seen a 300+ Compact Disk changer that handles MP3s? That would be fantastic.
09-13-2003, 12:25 PM
#5
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but you're missing the point. Thisis not about music sharing being right or wrong, it's about the RIAA Taking improper action against the violators. The RIAA and other record producers Take advantage of the consumers whether they steal or not.
The recording companies lose about 1.50 per song if I d/l'd an album and burnt it rather than buying. If they caught me, I would be fined $12,000. THAT'S A LITTLE EXCESSIVE, IT'S AN 800,000% INCREASE THERE. But here's the thing, they violate your rights by threatening your ISP and stealing your personal info. They are not the government or the police, they have no right to take your personal info off the internet.
Another thing, Record companies are ripping off the consumers at $18 per disc. After all expenses taken on the record companies part, each CD produced cst the record company less than 4 cents to make and put on the shelves. That means that each consumer is paying a 35-45,000% markup on each CD they buy. Even Artists agree that CDs are outstandingly expensive. CDs haven't seen a price drop since the 1980s when they replaced audio tapes. If these record companies were more realistic, it would be $5 per disc and every company would still make a good amount of money.
Also, you won't lose talent b/c of MP3 downloading, that's absurd. If you ask me, there's just as little talent right now as there was b4 Mp3s. I mean, look at some of these rappers, they use recycled beats and "Rap" over them. Nelly, who can't rhyme at all using backup singers to make the whole song while he says "it's hot in herr" and rappers making up words that don't exist just so they can make it sound like it rhymes. They make more money each year than you will make in your lifetime, and they only have to put out 1 cd every 2 years if they wanted to. Besides, most of their income isn't from CD sales, but merchandise and concerts. They get a contract from the record company no matter how many CDs sell. The record CEOs however are so filthy rich from doing NOTHING, combined, they could prolly purchase 50 countries.
Talent will appear whether the artist makes 15 million a year, or a mere $200,000 a year. It's like saying, pay doctors more, and you'll get better doctors. Oh Gee, I have the talent and education to be a doctor, but $400,000 a year isn't enough for me, I'm gonna go work at wall mart.
The recording companies lose about 1.50 per song if I d/l'd an album and burnt it rather than buying. If they caught me, I would be fined $12,000. THAT'S A LITTLE EXCESSIVE, IT'S AN 800,000% INCREASE THERE. But here's the thing, they violate your rights by threatening your ISP and stealing your personal info. They are not the government or the police, they have no right to take your personal info off the internet.
Another thing, Record companies are ripping off the consumers at $18 per disc. After all expenses taken on the record companies part, each CD produced cst the record company less than 4 cents to make and put on the shelves. That means that each consumer is paying a 35-45,000% markup on each CD they buy. Even Artists agree that CDs are outstandingly expensive. CDs haven't seen a price drop since the 1980s when they replaced audio tapes. If these record companies were more realistic, it would be $5 per disc and every company would still make a good amount of money.
Also, you won't lose talent b/c of MP3 downloading, that's absurd. If you ask me, there's just as little talent right now as there was b4 Mp3s. I mean, look at some of these rappers, they use recycled beats and "Rap" over them. Nelly, who can't rhyme at all using backup singers to make the whole song while he says "it's hot in herr" and rappers making up words that don't exist just so they can make it sound like it rhymes. They make more money each year than you will make in your lifetime, and they only have to put out 1 cd every 2 years if they wanted to. Besides, most of their income isn't from CD sales, but merchandise and concerts. They get a contract from the record company no matter how many CDs sell. The record CEOs however are so filthy rich from doing NOTHING, combined, they could prolly purchase 50 countries.
Talent will appear whether the artist makes 15 million a year, or a mere $200,000 a year. It's like saying, pay doctors more, and you'll get better doctors. Oh Gee, I have the talent and education to be a doctor, but $400,000 a year isn't enough for me, I'm gonna go work at wall mart.
09-13-2003, 06:28 PM
#7
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Location: texas
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The RIAA does not give a dam about the artist. The only art they can see is the green of cash.
I don't really care if it is right or wrong right now, the fact is these people simply found out how to gain a lil mo money.
They have to go after us now, because file sharing programs have found legal loop holes and cannot be touched.
I don't really care if it is right or wrong right now, the fact is these people simply found out how to gain a lil mo money.
They have to go after us now, because file sharing programs have found legal loop holes and cannot be touched.
09-13-2003, 08:58 PM
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I wanted to add something. The RIAA is not the government nor the police. They have no right to set the laws or enforce them, they are just powerful enough to get away with the fact that they themselves are breaking the law...a real law.
Think about some ordinary citizen going around and shooting people in the head for littering or speeding, or doing one of the many "unlawful" things we do each day without thinking about it. The RIAA is taking the law into their own hands for the simple pleasure of making a ton of money on unsuspecting people. They are not doing this to look out for the artists, they are not looking out for the record stores, they get money from the people they sue and the record companies that created them and that's all they're about.
Think about some ordinary citizen going around and shooting people in the head for littering or speeding, or doing one of the many "unlawful" things we do each day without thinking about it. The RIAA is taking the law into their own hands for the simple pleasure of making a ton of money on unsuspecting people. They are not doing this to look out for the artists, they are not looking out for the record stores, they get money from the people they sue and the record companies that created them and that's all they're about.
09-13-2003, 09:20 PM
#10
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,603
i try to remain impartial and see both sides of the argument. however, it's a damn hard thing to do. i mean, i understand that stealing is stealing, whether it's from poor folks, or 'robin hood' style from the disgustingly rich. at the same time, all the greed that is prevalent in modern business (entertainment, in particular) is outrageous. i can dig it if the next man has to eat too. but damn, u don't have to rip my broke *** off in the process.
i can feel where Stan's coming from and all, but the case he presents is a little different. an artist trying to make a buck in this world isn't a big problem. and with all the money that some may spend to do what they do, it would be nice to get a little change to offset the costs (or even turn a profit if that's how ur making ur living). however, to gain enormous increases in wealth while fleecing the public on the whole, is just not cool. maybe i'm just a cheap *** (which i am
), but i can't see how going from $8.99 for tapes back in the day (which have to cost significantly more to produce due to the plastic casings, magnetic tape, and moving parts) to $18.99 for CD's (a flat, clear piece of plastic with a very thin piece of metallic foil plastered to the top of it) makes a lick of sense. sure, when the first came out with the crisp, clear digital sound, it was a new technology and the research and development costs had to be recouped. but now? hell, everybody's got a CD player and it's old news. why so expensive? besides, i think that TLC and Toni Braxton's financial troubles showed us that the artists don't even garner the greatest benefits from their work.
i don't know, i'm all for 'doing the right thing', but the doing so is completely wrong to me sometimes. it seems like consumers are not to be treated with high regard. ****, we're just targets for financial vampires. i mean damn, they already got u paying for tv (cable and satellite) and trying to get u to pay for RADIO (sirrus and xm). madness? i think so.
sorry for the long post, guys/gals. it's midnight, i've been drinking, and i really felt like going on a tangent...
i can feel where Stan's coming from and all, but the case he presents is a little different. an artist trying to make a buck in this world isn't a big problem. and with all the money that some may spend to do what they do, it would be nice to get a little change to offset the costs (or even turn a profit if that's how ur making ur living). however, to gain enormous increases in wealth while fleecing the public on the whole, is just not cool. maybe i'm just a cheap *** (which i am
), but i can't see how going from $8.99 for tapes back in the day (which have to cost significantly more to produce due to the plastic casings, magnetic tape, and moving parts) to $18.99 for CD's (a flat, clear piece of plastic with a very thin piece of metallic foil plastered to the top of it) makes a lick of sense. sure, when the first came out with the crisp, clear digital sound, it was a new technology and the research and development costs had to be recouped. but now? hell, everybody's got a CD player and it's old news. why so expensive? besides, i think that TLC and Toni Braxton's financial troubles showed us that the artists don't even garner the greatest benefits from their work.i don't know, i'm all for 'doing the right thing', but the doing so is completely wrong to me sometimes. it seems like consumers are not to be treated with high regard. ****, we're just targets for financial vampires. i mean damn, they already got u paying for tv (cable and satellite) and trying to get u to pay for RADIO (sirrus and xm). madness? i think so.
sorry for the long post, guys/gals. it's midnight, i've been drinking, and i really felt like going on a tangent...
09-14-2003, 05:27 AM
#11
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,817
If you guys are truly pissed at the amount of profit companies are making and are pissed that you are being fleeced good luck.
I see professional piracy and robbery in your future.
I wish there was another field I could use as a comparison.
Lemme think.
hmmmmmmmmmmm
How about 3k for a used engine from Japan!? Lets steal those! They are only $500 over there. That means they are making 6 times more than they should! Financial Vampires is a great term. Think of it the next time you spend mega bucks on a shock with a metal ring attached to it (engine damper). Something that you could make for $15.
I understand we all love music. But it is not a "need". You need Food, Shelter and Air to live. Music is entertainment.
A governing body will never regulate the Music Industry when it comes to price. They are not a "need" like electricity so they can charge what they want. If you don't agree with the price don't purchase it.
I think the RIAA is going the wrong way taking care of music traders, their means do not justify their ends. Trampling over everyone’s rights to find them is too easy. They should have to work like every officer and detective out there. Find the suspect, and then prove your case before you are warranted to chase the suspect. I do not agree with blanket shakedowns. I agree with you guys there.
If the music industry were to make it easy, higher quality and downloadable people would purchase it.
Look at that Mac site that sells direct to ipod users. It is taking off.
My ends are a 300kbs+ quality file. If I had to spend $1.50 per song I would be down, because my collection would be exactly what I wanted.
On the other hand what do they expect? There will always be a section of thieves on the Internet. You cannot post jack without thinking it will get “saved as” and traded amongst friends. That is a good thing in some instances if you plan for it and make it so you will benefit from it.
I just think they are trying old world approaches to a new technology. They need to grow with and stop trying to kill what has already started. The public wants it and they have the time and want to find other outlets to trade. They will just get better at hiding themselves.
I see professional piracy and robbery in your future.
I wish there was another field I could use as a comparison.
Lemme think.
hmmmmmmmmmmm
How about 3k for a used engine from Japan!? Lets steal those! They are only $500 over there. That means they are making 6 times more than they should! Financial Vampires is a great term. Think of it the next time you spend mega bucks on a shock with a metal ring attached to it (engine damper). Something that you could make for $15.
I understand we all love music. But it is not a "need". You need Food, Shelter and Air to live. Music is entertainment.
A governing body will never regulate the Music Industry when it comes to price. They are not a "need" like electricity so they can charge what they want. If you don't agree with the price don't purchase it.
I think the RIAA is going the wrong way taking care of music traders, their means do not justify their ends. Trampling over everyone’s rights to find them is too easy. They should have to work like every officer and detective out there. Find the suspect, and then prove your case before you are warranted to chase the suspect. I do not agree with blanket shakedowns. I agree with you guys there.
If the music industry were to make it easy, higher quality and downloadable people would purchase it.
Look at that Mac site that sells direct to ipod users. It is taking off.
My ends are a 300kbs+ quality file. If I had to spend $1.50 per song I would be down, because my collection would be exactly what I wanted.
On the other hand what do they expect? There will always be a section of thieves on the Internet. You cannot post jack without thinking it will get “saved as” and traded amongst friends. That is a good thing in some instances if you plan for it and make it so you will benefit from it.
I just think they are trying old world approaches to a new technology. They need to grow with and stop trying to kill what has already started. The public wants it and they have the time and want to find other outlets to trade. They will just get better at hiding themselves.
09-14-2003, 06:42 AM
#12
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,603
that's exactly my point. in my opinion, the whole point of commerce is to rip someone off (so to speak). what i mean by that is to gain a profit from a product or service. for instance, u think it's a good deal to get a $0.33 can of vegetables, right? but the actual cost of that product could be as low as $0.05. r u gonna start growing thoses veggies and canning them urself to save costs? no. so u will be ripped off by buying them (so to speak). same thing goes when getting a brake job and paying like $139, when u can do it urself for like $20-$60 (the price of parts). will someone who doesn't know about brakes, don't wanna get dirty, or is just plain intimidated by all things mechanical do their own labor? no, and so they'll get ripped. even the computers we're using, are any of us going to develop our own operating system so that we don't add to bill gates' riches? i don't think so. i guess it's the extent to which we get ripped off that, in my opinion, would determine whether it is excessive or not. but, in the end, what do you do?
that said, i don't think that theft/piracy is the answer. however, neither is price gouging or outrageous (and possibly illegal) lawsuits. i think what apple computer is doing w/the ipod and all that is pretty cool. i think it would be neat to have more services out there like that (more competition=more competitive pricing
). i think i'm just gonna see how this all plays out...
that said, i don't think that theft/piracy is the answer. however, neither is price gouging or outrageous (and possibly illegal) lawsuits. i think what apple computer is doing w/the ipod and all that is pretty cool. i think it would be neat to have more services out there like that (more competition=more competitive pricing
). i think i'm just gonna see how this all plays out...
09-14-2003, 08:41 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Safety Harbor and Orlando, FL
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Originally posted by Sil40_Mayhem
that's exactly my point. in my opinion, the whole point of commerce is to rip someone off (so to speak). what i mean by that is to gain a profit from a product or service. for instance, u think it's a good deal to get a $0.33 can of vegetables, right? but the actual cost of that product could be as low as $0.05. r u gonna start growing thoses veggies and canning them urself to save costs? no. so u will be ripped off by buying them (so to speak). same thing goes when getting a brake job and paying like $139, when u can do it urself for like $20-$60 (the price of parts). will someone who doesn't know about brakes, don't wanna get dirty, or is just plain intimidated by all things mechanical do their own labor? no, and so they'll get ripped. even the computers we're using, are any of us going to develop our own operating system so that we don't add to bill gates' riches? i don't think so. i guess it's the extent to which we get ripped off that, in my opinion, would determine whether it is excessive or not. but, in the end, what do you do?
that said, i don't think that theft/piracy is the answer. however, neither is price gouging or outrageous (and possibly illegal) lawsuits. i think what apple computer is doing w/the ipod and all that is pretty cool. i think it would be neat to have more services out there like that (more competition=more competitive pricing ). i think i'm just gonna see how this all plays out...
that's exactly my point. in my opinion, the whole point of commerce is to rip someone off (so to speak). what i mean by that is to gain a profit from a product or service. for instance, u think it's a good deal to get a $0.33 can of vegetables, right? but the actual cost of that product could be as low as $0.05. r u gonna start growing thoses veggies and canning them urself to save costs? no. so u will be ripped off by buying them (so to speak). same thing goes when getting a brake job and paying like $139, when u can do it urself for like $20-$60 (the price of parts). will someone who doesn't know about brakes, don't wanna get dirty, or is just plain intimidated by all things mechanical do their own labor? no, and so they'll get ripped. even the computers we're using, are any of us going to develop our own operating system so that we don't add to bill gates' riches? i don't think so. i guess it's the extent to which we get ripped off that, in my opinion, would determine whether it is excessive or not. but, in the end, what do you do?
that said, i don't think that theft/piracy is the answer. however, neither is price gouging or outrageous (and possibly illegal) lawsuits. i think what apple computer is doing w/the ipod and all that is pretty cool. i think it would be neat to have more services out there like that (more competition=more competitive pricing
). i think i'm just gonna see how this all plays out...
You're right, if you can't pay, you can't play, and since I can't pay, I'm gonna D/L it as long as it's freely available to do so.
All I really want to say is the RIAA is not taking the proper action against people who download. Do you know why kazaa and other P2P programs exist while Napster fell? Kazaa, Imesh and other programs share the list of file transfers with the RIAA. The RIAA WANTS these P2P programs to exist so they can find offenders and sue the pants off them. The proper action would be to shut down these networks and end the problem, but instead, they encourage the networks to exist so they can turn the average american into a criminal. If you don't see it yet, keeping the problem around is more profitable than solving the problem and as long as P2P programs exist, people are naturally going to use them and the RIAA is going to get more money.
I haven't purchased a new CD in about 3 years and I don't plan to unless these companies start lowering the prices of CD's. The recording companies did this to themselves by making CD prices ridiculusly high and @ $15-18 a CD, I have a collection of over 100CDs, people can't afford dishing out $2000 just to listen to some of their favorite music albums.
09-14-2003, 09:15 AM
#14
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,817
Originally posted by 1997 GA16DE
You're right, if you can't pay, you can't play, and since I can't pay, I'm gonna D/L it as long as it's freely available to do so.
You're right, if you can't pay, you can't play, and since I can't pay, I'm gonna D/L it as long as it's freely available to do so.
Again if you don't like the markup don't listen to it. Markup does not justify stealing.
So if I had a warehouse with 15,000 SR motors marked up to $4,000 it would be ok to steal some if they were "free"?
09-14-2003, 09:40 AM
#15
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I'm not trying to convince anyone here, just tyring to say my point/
I don't think it would be ok to steal your precious SR20 motor. However, if you had 60million motors and were selling them at $50,000 ea, I think people would start to look for another way to get an SR20DET. There would prolly be alot of mechanics and metal shop experts copying your SR20DET design and making their own. Therefore, you get pissed, you take away the mechanics' tools and shops and throw them out on the street with nothing but the clothes on their backs just because you are powerful enough to do so.
I don't think it would be ok to steal your precious SR20 motor. However, if you had 60million motors and were selling them at $50,000 ea, I think people would start to look for another way to get an SR20DET. There would prolly be alot of mechanics and metal shop experts copying your SR20DET design and making their own. Therefore, you get pissed, you take away the mechanics' tools and shops and throw them out on the street with nothing but the clothes on their backs just because you are powerful enough to do so.