10 days with Tein HE's... (super long but DETAILED!)
06-12-2004, 03:45 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
10 days with Tein HE's... (super long but DETAILED!)
Okay so I've been on Tein HE's for about 10 days now (technically it's 12 but I was off the road for 2 because of my rear caliper problem)... and since I'm bored at 3:50am I think I'll share my experiences so far:
PACKAGING AND DETAILS
...man that's a pretty heavy freakin box. But everything's held in place nice with thick cardboard guides, and Dampi is stamped on the box so yeah I like it. Inside I found all 4 dampers pre-assembled, along with a bag of stuffs: installation/users manual, 2 die-cut green and white Tein stickers, 2 of the same but in green and black, an 8x11" sheet of Dampachi shock stickers showing Dampi in Britney Spears poses, 2 spanner wrenches with Tein stamped on them, a small allen wrench with molded Tein handle for dampening adjustment, and a Tein emblem. The upper pillowball/camber adjustment plates for the front were pre-installed. The stickers and emblem were confiscated by my girlfriend.
PRE-INSTALL ADJUSTMENT
Being **** like I am I actually read the entire user/installation manual that comes with the HE's. There's a "standard" configuration setup with nice diagrams of each damper that shows 4 different measurement "criteria" so that you can setup the HE's all even with the correct shock lengths, spring preloads, and dampening. There's no mention of suggested settings for the camber plates, but that's pretty much understood since camber correction is related to how low you go with your car in the first place.
INSTALLATION
After years and years and countless spring/shock installs on both my car and a bunch of my friends cars, I have to say that installing a full coilover system is actually refreshing. No more popping shock nuts, no more messing with spring compressors, etc. Basically take off the entire front and rear shock assemblies, and bolt in the new ones.
The fronts take the removal of 5 bolts - 2 shock to spindle bolts under the front fender (19mm nut and bolt, pretty hefty, breaker bar needed) and 3 upper shock mount bolts under the hood (14mm nut, any socket set will do). Installing the front HE's was pretty simple. the pillowball mount rotates super smooth, and the pilowball allows the angle of the shock to be changed effortlessly, so lining up the top 3 bolts and the steering spindle to the coilover was cake. The easiest way I found to install fronts was to first attach the 3 nuts to the pillowball mount up top and tighten. I then used a floor jack to raise the front arm assembly up to align the front spindle with the Tein strut bracket. Fronts done, now to the back.
The rears are easier - 2 upper nuts (14mm) accessible from inside the car and 1 17mm bolt underneath. The upper nuts can be found underneath the rear shelf where the rear speaker grills are, a quick tug and that whole cover comes off. Note that you're gonna need a socket extension to reach the rear upper nuts because they're situated about 2-3 inches inside a metal cavity that is part of the chassis. As for the lower 17mm bolt found at the bottom of the rear shock, you might want to bring out the breaker bar again for added leverage. With the original rear shocks out, time to bring in the HE's. Again, pillowball upper mounts make aligning everything so much easier. I used the same method to install the rears as I did the fronts, but in a different order - first I attached the rear coilover to the rear lower arm with the 17mm bolt. then I'd use the floor jack again to raise the lower arm (with Tein bolted to it) up into the fender until the rear upper mount was pressed up in position. This makes it easier to tighten the 2 upper nuts from inside the car. Also note that this is the easlest and probably the only way to install any coilovers on an S14 BY YOURSELF. Especially the rears, which are physically impossible to install by yourself unless you're plastic man and you can stand outside holding the shock while your plastic arms strech into the car to tighten the upper nuts. So all four Tein's in place, back go the wheels, lower off jack stands, and now it's test time.
TEST DRIVE #1: Tein "suggested" Starting Setup.
My first test drive was with the Tein's set up exactly as outlined in the instruction/users manual. This includes having the front shock dampening set at 4 and the rear set at 6 (10 clicks and 12 clicks back from hardest, which is 16). Drove it around a few blocks, heard the spare tire jump in the trunk... man this feels stiff. Right away I knew I'd have to spend some time playing with the dampening to get a decent "daily driver" setup.
TEST DRIVE #2: Test Setup A
Back in the garage, I figured that the shocks were too stiff, so I decided I'd start at the bottom (meaning softest damper setting) and work my way up. Drove it around again, and it was super bouncy. Felt the same as if you had dead shocks. I went online to do some research and realized I was an idiot: somewhere I read that the shock stiffness must be set in relation to the spring stiffness for a good ride. What made me feel like an idiot was that I knew my car was reacting like I had dead shocks - meaning that the shock was actually set TOO SOFT for the given springs (in my case, HE springs which are stiffer than usual at 8/6). After slapping my forehead, I went back out to the garage and tried stiffer settings on the shock dampening.
TEST DRIVE #3: Test Setup B
Being bored I decided to take the same approach as Setup A, but instead I was gonna start from the stiffest setting and work my way down until it had an acceptible ride. With both front and rear set at 16, I drove again and although the ride was more taught, the car still felt a little bouncy, especially on the rough stuff. Small bumps or expansion joints did nothing anymore, but if there was a set of railroad tracks or the occassional concrete patch on the street, the car would jerk pretty bad. The front tires would rub the inner fender liner on the larger bumps also. For the next hour, I'd drive about 10 minutes, change dampening settings, drive again, etc. and after going through the entire range (16 stiff all the way to 1 soft) I still didn't like the handling.
TEST DRIVE #4: Test Setup C
Back home for some brainstorming. The first thing I wanted to correct was how the front tires would occasssionally rub the inner fender liner. I didn't want to raise the cars ride height from where I set it at (23" front / 24" rear, measuring from road to the highest point of the fender opening) so I figured that if I gave the front some preload, it would hold the front up more whenever I'd hit a bump big enough to cause the front tire to hit. So off came the fronts, and I dialed in about 1 inch of preload (meaning I moved the lower spring perches up 1 inch, without changing the shock length to keep the same ride height). Back on the road again, and the tire rub was history. The car felt a little better too, but still a little too "jerky" when I hit big bumps.
TEST DRIVE #5: Test Setup D
I couldn't figure out why it was taking me so long to find a decent "streetable" setting for the HE's. The car was still bouncy, no matter where I set the dampening level. I figured some of this had to do with the HE-specific 8/6 spring rates, but was it really this bad? Is this what I have to deal with - a super stiff and bouncy car on public roads? And then I remembered how I added some preload up front to cure the tire rubbing issue. Then I realized that the rear springs, when set up the way the Tein manual suggested, would barely touch both the upper mounts and lower spring perches. How about I dial in an inch of preload out back too? Tried it, went for a drive, and hey... much better. Still a little stiff (I was back to 16/16 at this point) so I ended up playing with dampening again, finally settling at 14/12. After adding spring preload, the ride got much better. So far this has been the best setup for street driving, but it's still a little stiff for me.
CONCLUSION
Well, each day I try different dampening settings, in search of a feel similar (I know it won't be exact) to how my car felt when it was on Tein S-Techs and KYB GR-2's. Yes that's probably impossible to do, but in this case if I can get the HE's to ride as close as possible to the Tein/KYB setup I had, I'll be satisfied. If I can't figure out a setup I can live with, I might actually go ahead and replace the HE's with probably a set of Tein Flex. As much as I like attacking the mountains and driving my car hard, there's a lot of times where I just have to go places, and I still feel that at the current settings the HE's are still too stiff for me. However, judging by how different each dampening "click" feels, I'd have to say that these HE's seem to be a really good choice if you're into the hardcore Drift setup action. I did try a couple times to break the rear end loose from the pavement, and when the rear started sliding, it felt pretty neutral and controllable (too bad I don't have enough HP yet to really test them out). If you're looking for something that's well capable of being track worthy, I think the HE's are a good choice to consider. As for using HE's on a daily driver/part time touge action car, I'm not sure yet. I haven't done enough suspension tinkering to come up with a thorough conclusion.
The tuning session continues...
PACKAGING AND DETAILS
...man that's a pretty heavy freakin box. But everything's held in place nice with thick cardboard guides, and Dampi is stamped on the box so yeah I like it. Inside I found all 4 dampers pre-assembled, along with a bag of stuffs: installation/users manual, 2 die-cut green and white Tein stickers, 2 of the same but in green and black, an 8x11" sheet of Dampachi shock stickers showing Dampi in Britney Spears poses, 2 spanner wrenches with Tein stamped on them, a small allen wrench with molded Tein handle for dampening adjustment, and a Tein emblem. The upper pillowball/camber adjustment plates for the front were pre-installed. The stickers and emblem were confiscated by my girlfriend.
PRE-INSTALL ADJUSTMENT
Being **** like I am I actually read the entire user/installation manual that comes with the HE's. There's a "standard" configuration setup with nice diagrams of each damper that shows 4 different measurement "criteria" so that you can setup the HE's all even with the correct shock lengths, spring preloads, and dampening. There's no mention of suggested settings for the camber plates, but that's pretty much understood since camber correction is related to how low you go with your car in the first place.
INSTALLATION
After years and years and countless spring/shock installs on both my car and a bunch of my friends cars, I have to say that installing a full coilover system is actually refreshing. No more popping shock nuts, no more messing with spring compressors, etc. Basically take off the entire front and rear shock assemblies, and bolt in the new ones.
The fronts take the removal of 5 bolts - 2 shock to spindle bolts under the front fender (19mm nut and bolt, pretty hefty, breaker bar needed) and 3 upper shock mount bolts under the hood (14mm nut, any socket set will do). Installing the front HE's was pretty simple. the pillowball mount rotates super smooth, and the pilowball allows the angle of the shock to be changed effortlessly, so lining up the top 3 bolts and the steering spindle to the coilover was cake. The easiest way I found to install fronts was to first attach the 3 nuts to the pillowball mount up top and tighten. I then used a floor jack to raise the front arm assembly up to align the front spindle with the Tein strut bracket. Fronts done, now to the back.
The rears are easier - 2 upper nuts (14mm) accessible from inside the car and 1 17mm bolt underneath. The upper nuts can be found underneath the rear shelf where the rear speaker grills are, a quick tug and that whole cover comes off. Note that you're gonna need a socket extension to reach the rear upper nuts because they're situated about 2-3 inches inside a metal cavity that is part of the chassis. As for the lower 17mm bolt found at the bottom of the rear shock, you might want to bring out the breaker bar again for added leverage. With the original rear shocks out, time to bring in the HE's. Again, pillowball upper mounts make aligning everything so much easier. I used the same method to install the rears as I did the fronts, but in a different order - first I attached the rear coilover to the rear lower arm with the 17mm bolt. then I'd use the floor jack again to raise the lower arm (with Tein bolted to it) up into the fender until the rear upper mount was pressed up in position. This makes it easier to tighten the 2 upper nuts from inside the car. Also note that this is the easlest and probably the only way to install any coilovers on an S14 BY YOURSELF. Especially the rears, which are physically impossible to install by yourself unless you're plastic man and you can stand outside holding the shock while your plastic arms strech into the car to tighten the upper nuts. So all four Tein's in place, back go the wheels, lower off jack stands, and now it's test time.
TEST DRIVE #1: Tein "suggested" Starting Setup.
My first test drive was with the Tein's set up exactly as outlined in the instruction/users manual. This includes having the front shock dampening set at 4 and the rear set at 6 (10 clicks and 12 clicks back from hardest, which is 16). Drove it around a few blocks, heard the spare tire jump in the trunk... man this feels stiff. Right away I knew I'd have to spend some time playing with the dampening to get a decent "daily driver" setup.
TEST DRIVE #2: Test Setup A
Back in the garage, I figured that the shocks were too stiff, so I decided I'd start at the bottom (meaning softest damper setting) and work my way up. Drove it around again, and it was super bouncy. Felt the same as if you had dead shocks. I went online to do some research and realized I was an idiot: somewhere I read that the shock stiffness must be set in relation to the spring stiffness for a good ride. What made me feel like an idiot was that I knew my car was reacting like I had dead shocks - meaning that the shock was actually set TOO SOFT for the given springs (in my case, HE springs which are stiffer than usual at 8/6). After slapping my forehead, I went back out to the garage and tried stiffer settings on the shock dampening.
TEST DRIVE #3: Test Setup B
Being bored I decided to take the same approach as Setup A, but instead I was gonna start from the stiffest setting and work my way down until it had an acceptible ride. With both front and rear set at 16, I drove again and although the ride was more taught, the car still felt a little bouncy, especially on the rough stuff. Small bumps or expansion joints did nothing anymore, but if there was a set of railroad tracks or the occassional concrete patch on the street, the car would jerk pretty bad. The front tires would rub the inner fender liner on the larger bumps also. For the next hour, I'd drive about 10 minutes, change dampening settings, drive again, etc. and after going through the entire range (16 stiff all the way to 1 soft) I still didn't like the handling.
TEST DRIVE #4: Test Setup C
Back home for some brainstorming. The first thing I wanted to correct was how the front tires would occasssionally rub the inner fender liner. I didn't want to raise the cars ride height from where I set it at (23" front / 24" rear, measuring from road to the highest point of the fender opening) so I figured that if I gave the front some preload, it would hold the front up more whenever I'd hit a bump big enough to cause the front tire to hit. So off came the fronts, and I dialed in about 1 inch of preload (meaning I moved the lower spring perches up 1 inch, without changing the shock length to keep the same ride height). Back on the road again, and the tire rub was history. The car felt a little better too, but still a little too "jerky" when I hit big bumps.
TEST DRIVE #5: Test Setup D
I couldn't figure out why it was taking me so long to find a decent "streetable" setting for the HE's. The car was still bouncy, no matter where I set the dampening level. I figured some of this had to do with the HE-specific 8/6 spring rates, but was it really this bad? Is this what I have to deal with - a super stiff and bouncy car on public roads? And then I remembered how I added some preload up front to cure the tire rubbing issue. Then I realized that the rear springs, when set up the way the Tein manual suggested, would barely touch both the upper mounts and lower spring perches. How about I dial in an inch of preload out back too? Tried it, went for a drive, and hey... much better. Still a little stiff (I was back to 16/16 at this point) so I ended up playing with dampening again, finally settling at 14/12. After adding spring preload, the ride got much better. So far this has been the best setup for street driving, but it's still a little stiff for me.
CONCLUSION
Well, each day I try different dampening settings, in search of a feel similar (I know it won't be exact) to how my car felt when it was on Tein S-Techs and KYB GR-2's. Yes that's probably impossible to do, but in this case if I can get the HE's to ride as close as possible to the Tein/KYB setup I had, I'll be satisfied. If I can't figure out a setup I can live with, I might actually go ahead and replace the HE's with probably a set of Tein Flex. As much as I like attacking the mountains and driving my car hard, there's a lot of times where I just have to go places, and I still feel that at the current settings the HE's are still too stiff for me. However, judging by how different each dampening "click" feels, I'd have to say that these HE's seem to be a really good choice if you're into the hardcore Drift setup action. I did try a couple times to break the rear end loose from the pavement, and when the rear started sliding, it felt pretty neutral and controllable (too bad I don't have enough HP yet to really test them out). If you're looking for something that's well capable of being track worthy, I think the HE's are a good choice to consider. As for using HE's on a daily driver/part time touge action car, I'm not sure yet. I haven't done enough suspension tinkering to come up with a thorough conclusion.
The tuning session continues...
Last edited by l2aine; 06-12-2004 at 03:58 AM.
06-12-2004, 11:39 AM
#5
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Yes, the Flex has 6/5 spring rates compared to the 8/6's in the HE's, and they're valved differently from what I've researched... which means just a spring change might not do the trick (not 100% sure about the second part though)... and they don't make HA's for my car =\
If I do change setups completely, I am also thinking of maybe changing manufactureres, but the only other manufacturer I'd want to switch to would be HKS Hypermax 2's...
BTW did you see the guy flash his "Security" badge when they asked us to leave last night? ROFL
If I do change setups completely, I am also thinking of maybe changing manufactureres, but the only other manufacturer I'd want to switch to would be HKS Hypermax 2's...
BTW did you see the guy flash his "Security" badge when they asked us to leave last night? ROFL
Last edited by l2aine; 06-12-2004 at 11:42 AM.
06-13-2004, 12:01 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Originally posted by Catharsis
if you think the he's are too stiff you are gonna hate the hyper max.. just get some different springs
if you think the he's are too stiff you are gonna hate the hyper max.. just get some different springs
06-17-2004, 06:21 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Originally posted by Catharsis
the felx are sortta weak i would just get foster spring seriously the HE's will do fine with them they are a better damper overall
the felx are sortta weak i would just get foster spring seriously the HE's will do fine with them they are a better damper overall
06-17-2004, 05:29 PM
#12
Contributing Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pasadena,ca
Posts: 10,109
Originally posted by l2aine
"Sorta weak" in what sense? I'm not super track boy racer dude... if I was then I wouldn't even have considered anything less than HE's... and again, that EDFC unit is on my shopping list for sure now
"Sorta weak" in what sense? I'm not super track boy racer dude... if I was then I wouldn't even have considered anything less than HE's... and again, that EDFC unit is on my shopping list for sure now
Ya know opinions.