best suspension? any sugestions?
best suspension? any sugestions?
01-13-2003, 04:18 PM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 680
For a low, low ride with any suspension tracel, you're going to need something with a shortened srut body at least. I belive Tein makes a setup with shortened bodies that can be adjusted up and down in the strut mounts as well. Setup w/sptings probably costs around $1500, but I haven't been pricing.
I'm going with the AGX Eibach combo... my car is going to be a street car, and I don't have the corner scales or the patience, or even a completely flat surface large enough to properly setup coilovers
.
-Justin
I'm going with the AGX Eibach combo... my car is going to be a street car, and I don't have the corner scales or the patience, or even a completely flat surface large enough to properly setup coilovers
.-Justin
01-13-2003, 05:29 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Originally posted by I'm with Stupid
There's no such thing as "best with a low, low, low ride". Lowering your car, especially an S13, over an inch is retarded.
There's no such thing as "best with a low, low, low ride". Lowering your car, especially an S13, over an inch is retarded.
OMG! i thought i was the only one who believed this around here!!
01-14-2003, 12:38 AM
#6
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: miami, Fl
Posts: 55
if you believe this, explain option video?
Originally posted by I'm with Stupid
There's no such thing as "best with a low, low, low ride". Lowering your car, especially an S13, over an inch is retarded.
There's no such thing as "best with a low, low, low ride". Lowering your car, especially an S13, over an inch is retarded.
how can u say this. have you seen the s13 from option video? explain that smart guy?
01-14-2003, 02:58 PM
#10
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 709
this is about imprezas, but it can be applied to other cars.
"The third thing is the Impreza should not be need lowered much more than an inch (25mm). If you go lower than that two things begin to happen. One, the car starts scraping the ground in driveways and such and will hit the bump stops frequently, NG (No Good). But, even more important is the front suspension geometry feature called "roll center" is upset, causing poor transition and unwanted camber change in the front end. The car looks good, feels good and is slow around corners because the front tire contact patch is "sub-optimal". (NFG)
For the technically curious, as the car body rolls, it does so on a center point dictated by suspension geometry and ride height. If this center point is too low, the control arm angle relative to the chassis does not change enough to provide camber compensation for roll. Also, if the car is lowed, the initial angle of the control arm becomes flat relative to the ground and is no longer capable of providing camber compensation in the first place! SO, lowering, or raising a MacPhearson strut suspension is counter productive beyond a very small amount. If lowered too much, very large amounts of castor become important and castor is hard to come by in the Impreza without coil over springs. So resist the temptation to lower the car. It will handle better near where it is. "
http://www.spdusa.com/change.htm
"The third thing is the Impreza should not be need lowered much more than an inch (25mm). If you go lower than that two things begin to happen. One, the car starts scraping the ground in driveways and such and will hit the bump stops frequently, NG (No Good). But, even more important is the front suspension geometry feature called "roll center" is upset, causing poor transition and unwanted camber change in the front end. The car looks good, feels good and is slow around corners because the front tire contact patch is "sub-optimal". (NFG)
For the technically curious, as the car body rolls, it does so on a center point dictated by suspension geometry and ride height. If this center point is too low, the control arm angle relative to the chassis does not change enough to provide camber compensation for roll. Also, if the car is lowed, the initial angle of the control arm becomes flat relative to the ground and is no longer capable of providing camber compensation in the first place! SO, lowering, or raising a MacPhearson strut suspension is counter productive beyond a very small amount. If lowered too much, very large amounts of castor become important and castor is hard to come by in the Impreza without coil over springs. So resist the temptation to lower the car. It will handle better near where it is. "
http://www.spdusa.com/change.htm
01-14-2003, 09:39 PM
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 680
Well that's great...
Have you ever plotted the roll center for the front suspension of the 240SX? I haven't either, because it is a very involved process that takes a lot of time. The only person I know of that has done this for a street droven 240 is Don Nimi from pdm-racing.com
If you did start plotting roll centers you would quickly see that this is not something that can be generalized across cars. It is specific to every single suspension design and car on which it is used.
If you're willing to go all out for performance, why would you settle for stock adjustments? With a little bit of knowledge or money you can fabricate adjustable suspension components that will allow you to dial out just about all of the negative effects you mentioned.
Shortened shock bodies will keep you off the bump stops in the front. There will come a point where your car will hit the ground, and that becomes the limiting factor for your suspension design.
-Justin
Have you ever plotted the roll center for the front suspension of the 240SX? I haven't either, because it is a very involved process that takes a lot of time. The only person I know of that has done this for a street droven 240 is Don Nimi from pdm-racing.com
If you did start plotting roll centers you would quickly see that this is not something that can be generalized across cars. It is specific to every single suspension design and car on which it is used.
If you're willing to go all out for performance, why would you settle for stock adjustments? With a little bit of knowledge or money you can fabricate adjustable suspension components that will allow you to dial out just about all of the negative effects you mentioned.
Shortened shock bodies will keep you off the bump stops in the front. There will come a point where your car will hit the ground, and that becomes the limiting factor for your suspension design.
-Justin
01-15-2003, 01:49 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 709
the subaru site is not the only place i've read about lowering a car too much for the control arms. my friend's VW tuning book (Volkswagen Sport Tuning for Street and Competition) says the same thing. i've read it elsewhere also (although i do admit that i never read anything 240sx specific).
i dont have the money to go out and fabricate a whole new suspension. i'm looking for a very streetable, very affordable car that will do well on the weekends at the autox or road course. i believe the best way for me to build a car with those capabilities is to lower the car about an inch via stiffer springs.
right now, the only affordable way i can find to do this is with ground control sleeves. so unless i find an alternative, that is what i will be doing.
what's your suspension setup?
i dont have the money to go out and fabricate a whole new suspension. i'm looking for a very streetable, very affordable car that will do well on the weekends at the autox or road course. i believe the best way for me to build a car with those capabilities is to lower the car about an inch via stiffer springs.
right now, the only affordable way i can find to do this is with ground control sleeves. so unless i find an alternative, that is what i will be doing.
what's your suspension setup?
01-15-2003, 02:03 PM
#13
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 44
I dont understand why you have read a book from Volkswagon, an internet article from impreza, but haven't learned anything about 240's. And lowering you're center of gravity will ALWAYS give you best results. Building a car to produce those results is that key. So please learn a little more so people dont get the wrong ideas.
01-15-2003, 03:13 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 709
dude, who the f*ck are you?
maybe if you open up your mind for a second.....
VWs and imprezas are two very different cars. if they both benefit from the same type of suspension mod, maybe, just maybe, other cars would too.
i think i made it pretty clear that none of my information was 240sx specific.
closed minded people **** me off.
maybe if you open up your mind for a second.....
VWs and imprezas are two very different cars. if they both benefit from the same type of suspension mod, maybe, just maybe, other cars would too.
i think i made it pretty clear that none of my information was 240sx specific.
closed minded people **** me off.
01-15-2003, 05:00 PM
#15
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 680
My suspension is stock right now except for the Whiteline sways... going with Eibach/AGX in the spring.
To properly set up coilovers you really need a set of scales. I don't have them, and I'm too cheap to pay a place that does.
For a great book on general suspension design, check out 'How to make your car Handle' by Fred Puhn. It's basically the 'Maximum Boost' of suspension tuning. I think Amazon.com has it for less than $20, but haven't checked in a while.
If you really do want to plot your roll centers, that's the book that will tell you how to do it. But, the roll center changes with every little change to the suspension, and you have to start basically from scratch again.
Unless you transfer it to some CAD program, in which case I'd be very unterested in seeing that.
-Justin
To properly set up coilovers you really need a set of scales. I don't have them, and I'm too cheap to pay a place that does.
For a great book on general suspension design, check out 'How to make your car Handle' by Fred Puhn. It's basically the 'Maximum Boost' of suspension tuning. I think Amazon.com has it for less than $20, but haven't checked in a while.
If you really do want to plot your roll centers, that's the book that will tell you how to do it. But, the roll center changes with every little change to the suspension, and you have to start basically from scratch again.
Unless you transfer it to some CAD program, in which case I'd be very unterested in seeing that.-Justin