Benefits of RB vs. SR swaps??
11-23-2006, 09:27 AM
#16
Contributing Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 神奈川県,日本
Posts: 2,586
sounds good, but numbers dont mean anything, i mean if its a drag car then thats all good, but if your gona autox it or something then if your cars putting down 350 at 5000rpms...then your gona get your *** kicked by a car with an equivalent suspension setup with 200hp and good throttle respose...
11-29-2006, 04:18 PM
#18
One thing to also put into consideration, no matter what kind of sport you do (autox, drag, drift) one rule of thumb is weight reduction. For every 10lbs you shave off, you gain 1/10 of a second (per lap in a circuit race).
With that said, yes, having an RB is bad *** blah blah blah (I wanted to do this swap for a long time) but you increase the weight by about 70 - 100lbs give or take from the original stock weight.
An SR will reduce the weight a little, but my biggest concern about the SR (which isnt really all that bad) is that the valves float at high RPM. Hence you need rocker arm stoppers and stiffer valve springs.
And like motegineon has stated, having a good / effective suspension & brake setup is key to anything you do. You can have 800 hp, but what good is it if your chassis and tires dont hook up correctly due to poor suspension? Not to mention, how the heck are you going to stop.
If you havent focused on it yet, (not sure if you have done this or not) but work on suspension and brakes first. Then focus on the motor.
Now, to really bring the best of both worlds, here is my advice... Save up some $... and check out Hinsonsupercars.com.
Why? Heres the deal, a Chevy LSx (LS1, LS2, LS6) swap gives you a HUGE advantage.
1.) The cheapest LS swap, the LS1 gives you about 260 - 270 hp STOCK. Pick up an aftermarket crank pulley and you knock it up to just under 290 hp (my buddy owns an FC RX-7 w/ an LS1 swap we dynoed, pulling out 289 hp at the wheel.) There is a HUGE aftermarket field for these small block V8s. Small mods = good hp gain. If you really want more hp out of it from stock, save up a lil more and buy the LS6 300 some-odd hp. Or if you have the $ LS2 for teh win with 400 hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque stock. All of which have a plethora (cant believe i used that word) of aftermarket support, but a stock LS6 or 2 is more than enough power in a 240sx for me.
2.) LS engines are known for good gas mileage (30 mpg on freeway) city... is another story... to me, its roughly about the same as a KA. The trannys for these from the SS camaro have high gearing allowing good mileage for those cruising speeds or highway travel.
3.) WEIGHT REDUCTION... YES! Doing this swap automatically reduces the weight of the vehicle DRAMATICALLY! Brian Hinson was able to knock off about 150lbs off the S14's stock weight by doing an LSx swap. All LSx engines are aluminum, the KA is a cast iron block.
What do I mean by best of both worlds? Light weight engine which is good for autox or any circuit racing or drifting. And more than enough hp for drag racing, especially in an S13 / 14. Just need the right suspension, brakes and tires.
Not trying to sway you in any way, just giving you another avenue to look down in the situation you want a car that can give you the most potential for your $. And if you live in California like me, the LSx swap is one of the few LEGAL swaps you can do here. I'll explain the rules if anyone wants about CA legalized engine swaps. I spent an hour on the phone with a CA BAR Referee and milked him for every bit of information I could get.
OK, time to stop ranting. Check out Brians website for more info, Hinsonsupercars.com. Oh, and they also have an S13 with a supercharged LS1 in Formula D (wrecked the front end towards the end of this season... made everyone cry...)
With that said, yes, having an RB is bad *** blah blah blah (I wanted to do this swap for a long time) but you increase the weight by about 70 - 100lbs give or take from the original stock weight.
An SR will reduce the weight a little, but my biggest concern about the SR (which isnt really all that bad) is that the valves float at high RPM. Hence you need rocker arm stoppers and stiffer valve springs.
And like motegineon has stated, having a good / effective suspension & brake setup is key to anything you do. You can have 800 hp, but what good is it if your chassis and tires dont hook up correctly due to poor suspension? Not to mention, how the heck are you going to stop.
If you havent focused on it yet, (not sure if you have done this or not) but work on suspension and brakes first. Then focus on the motor.
Now, to really bring the best of both worlds, here is my advice... Save up some $... and check out Hinsonsupercars.com.
Why? Heres the deal, a Chevy LSx (LS1, LS2, LS6) swap gives you a HUGE advantage.
1.) The cheapest LS swap, the LS1 gives you about 260 - 270 hp STOCK. Pick up an aftermarket crank pulley and you knock it up to just under 290 hp (my buddy owns an FC RX-7 w/ an LS1 swap we dynoed, pulling out 289 hp at the wheel.) There is a HUGE aftermarket field for these small block V8s. Small mods = good hp gain. If you really want more hp out of it from stock, save up a lil more and buy the LS6 300 some-odd hp. Or if you have the $ LS2 for teh win with 400 hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque stock. All of which have a plethora (cant believe i used that word) of aftermarket support, but a stock LS6 or 2 is more than enough power in a 240sx for me.
2.) LS engines are known for good gas mileage (30 mpg on freeway) city... is another story... to me, its roughly about the same as a KA. The trannys for these from the SS camaro have high gearing allowing good mileage for those cruising speeds or highway travel.
3.) WEIGHT REDUCTION... YES! Doing this swap automatically reduces the weight of the vehicle DRAMATICALLY! Brian Hinson was able to knock off about 150lbs off the S14's stock weight by doing an LSx swap. All LSx engines are aluminum, the KA is a cast iron block.
What do I mean by best of both worlds? Light weight engine which is good for autox or any circuit racing or drifting. And more than enough hp for drag racing, especially in an S13 / 14. Just need the right suspension, brakes and tires.
Not trying to sway you in any way, just giving you another avenue to look down in the situation you want a car that can give you the most potential for your $. And if you live in California like me, the LSx swap is one of the few LEGAL swaps you can do here. I'll explain the rules if anyone wants about CA legalized engine swaps. I spent an hour on the phone with a CA BAR Referee and milked him for every bit of information I could get.
OK, time to stop ranting. Check out Brians website for more info, Hinsonsupercars.com. Oh, and they also have an S13 with a supercharged LS1 in Formula D (wrecked the front end towards the end of this season... made everyone cry...)
Last edited by NiSmO Knight; 11-29-2006 at 04:27 PM.
11-30-2006, 06:32 AM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
Well i know the whole ls1/2/6 idea is a good one... but you said it yourself i need to do brakes and susp. - and unless they get real cheap real soon i dont think doing that swap would leave me with enough funds to do the brakes and susp. - otherwise it'd be an awesome idea...
12-06-2006, 11:00 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: doever, delaware
Posts: 54
well personally i'd stay away from rb's(minus the 26 but thats a more money...) as they are known to be weak after going over 400 not being able to stay together but with that said anything under 400 and they are very strong... but thats what i've gathered from my community, and i believe my community has completely figured out how to make sr's completely insane as with all jdm motor's. i've seen 240's smoke supra's which i dont like unless your drifting... anyways... im going with my sr mainly due to i already own it and the insane amount of aftermarket mod's for it. like i said just my 5 bucks.
12-08-2006, 10:34 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 72
I'd go with a SR, many mods, fairly easy to install and deal with. you will gain alot from minor upgrades, better yet turbo upgrades with the right tuning. I made 270rwhp with intake. exhaust, boost controller. I dunno about other campanies, but i chose HKS, well known for power and reliablility. Whatever you go with RB or SR Stick with a well known aftermarket company. and you will see very nice gains. It's all you at this point whether you go SR or RB. in all honesty I wish I woulda dropped the extra money to get a RB just cause nobody where I live has one, but then again a SR is probably easier to get parts for aftermarket or not, and Im happy I got the gains on my SR. But then again Im not sure what else I would have gained from a RB, but im sure it would have costs more
It's all your choice...
It's all your choice...
12-21-2006, 04:33 PM
#22
Originally posted by soccerpimp
Well i know the whole ls1/2/6 idea is a good one... but you said it yourself i need to do brakes and susp. - and unless they get real cheap real soon i dont think doing that swap would leave me with enough funds to do the brakes and susp. - otherwise it'd be an awesome idea...
Well i know the whole ls1/2/6 idea is a good one... but you said it yourself i need to do brakes and susp. - and unless they get real cheap real soon i dont think doing that swap would leave me with enough funds to do the brakes and susp. - otherwise it'd be an awesome idea...
Silverjoki, Im curious as to how much knowledge you guys have of the RB26. Our research (and personal experience working with them) can clearly speak for itself that the RB26 (and RB25) can handle 400+ hp with ease. Our Formula D S13 has an RB26 that has layed out 470+ hp at the wheels with stock bottom end and to this day, we have had zero problems. We have already switched out the internals as of last month and prior to D1GP, we layed out an impressive 530+ hp after dialing in all the electronics with the new HKS turbos. SR20's are definitly a nice power plant, but our safest numbers we gurantee out of that (reliably) is under 400 hp. Otherwise its a ticking time bomb, well, most of those customers dont know how to drive in the first place. I've seen signal drop out 600 at the crank in an S15 SR, but that intails a lot of time, money and work.
I'll explain a little more when I get home, the forums never sent me an update on this thread (dunno why) but Im sending myself the link to this thread before I leave work.
12-21-2006, 05:34 PM
#23
not just any swap even stock you need suspension work cause stock ks dosnt make alot of power but for an autox it has more power then the stock suspension can handle (people laugh at me when i say this but its true..).
my ka is stock other then exauhst, not even an intake and i just recently spent $3400 on my suspension in parts alone cause i do all my labor and thats just to get prepared for my sr swap.
my ka is stock other then exauhst, not even an intake and i just recently spent $3400 on my suspension in parts alone cause i do all my labor and thats just to get prepared for my sr swap.
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