Actually, I am not the one who knows jack about jack. I will openly admit to that.

I am simply relaying the info I am receiving from a racing shop in OKC. They are the achievers of many impressive cars, including many 240's, check out nismokc.com and see just how many rely and trust these guys at abel racing, you might learn a thing or two as well.

I have read and seen the knowledge deposited in the ever impressive bank of wisdom you have in these topics, thus the desire to adquire some opinion from you in the first place.

All posts I have placed was for the curiosity and to acheive better understanding of things I obiously have no clue over.

There is a posibility, however, that there could also be reasoning behind such researched and proven, with numbers, the value of such modifications. Not so say there isn't a better way, but curiosity killed the cat and that's all this is, curiosity.

Once again, thanks to everyones imput!

Thanks again BigVinnie, your knowlege is everly appreciated! I will seek info from you many times to come I know that!

 

You should understand your engine and it's engine management before you start messin with other stuff you know nothing about......... What people seem to think are easy alternatives are really only more complicated than you think.

 

Are you kidding??!!?? I wouldn't do this myself! I woukd get the dsm parts from my friend whos got like three or four, and have Abel Racing do the rest! $600 Hoooollly Sheit!!!!!!!! I just had a big fuqing spider crawl up my leg!!!!!!!!!! $600 to have a 350hp plus under my hood would be nice! I was actually thinking of doing this and sohc block guts in a dohc engine. Could this not be a bad idea?!?

 

I'm just here to help. Tearing up your wiring harness will do nothing but give you a headache. I am just trying to save you the grief When shops do those DSM swappers they are usually also rebuilding the car and engine from the ground up which is alot easier to do and it is usually well planned.
I don't work on Mitsubishi's and I don't really like them to begin with. I've learned to work with Nissans, and I know them inside and out. Therefore it is really unreasonable from my point of view to even think of considering such a swap with a DSM. Just doesn't sound logical after what I have been taught. Don't get me wrong Mitsubishi makes pretty good turbo's, hell they even made the Greddy turbo kit for Greddy. When Nissan designs a ecu for there engine it has already been simplified, you are just looking for other routes or methods of tuning it more conveniently and cheaply. The facts are performance under any circumstances is not cheap at all. In the process of making shortcuts (DSM swappers) you only make situations worse. Just my input from experience.

 

If $600 is what they charge I wouldn't bother. You can really get it done cheaper......... SOHC pistons are too high of a compression for DOHC heads I wouldn't do it for boosting.

 

Thanks Vinnie! Back to the drawling board for me I guess, still have curiosity about swap.

If it aint broke, dont try to fix it I guess!!

 

hello i am john , i haven't been on here in a couple of years.

well i have the dsm setup, actually the first one Andrei and JR from ABEL RACING did this swap on about a year ago. let me give you the run down on what this is.

engine wireharness, ecu, a few sensors ( mpi relay, resistor box, ignition transistor, o2 sensor, CAS )and we use the dsm fuel injectors. now the rest of the nissan sensors are wired in to the harness ( only a few of them ) and a few going to the gauge cluster.

now if ABEL sends him a wireharness and modded CAS and he uses a stock 1g mass air guess what, it is plug and play for 600 hmmmm. not too bad in my opinion. you only have to know how to set your engine at TDC and install the distributer/ CAS. now you say i wanna make 350whp then spend 235 on 3" gm mass air meter and get the maf translator guess what now you are good to 500+whp, with tuning and forged internals. and vinnie is right you wouldn't wanna put sohc pistons in there and add boost, bad combo. i have been making 300+ daily driven for the past year or so on a 160k ish completely stock block.

i don't think any ecu or modified ecu will have the knock reactivity of these ecu's. but i would be happy if someone could do it, in fact i am gonna help a buddy out down here who will be burning chips for a daughterboard on these ka's. if i pop a motor no big deal i spend a few hundred bucks and 8 hours later have it up and running again.

there are a lot of choices out there and i have never dogged a one of them, because they are there trying to improve something, this mod just happen to fit me better, and we are proving how well it works.either people like it or they don't but it makes power.

any questions you might have ask away in this thread and i will answer any questions that i can.

by the way tomorrow i will be installing the FP 60-1 and CM stage 5 clutch and a buddy of mine will be taking it to the track tomorrow night, ( mandatory overtime swing shift owns me ), hoping for 11.60-11.80 with 110 racegas, efeezi will be running as well so videos will come soon.

 

Well, if time and money permit, I will have to give it a try! I like things to be unique and have something others don't. As for me, I need to continue to talk to john and the boys in OKC, perhaps I can work something out with them when I sell my Jeep! Thanks John - Vinnie

 

did you get the phone number i pm'd you on ka-t, if not the number is (405) 73stang ask for JR or Andrei


by the way here is a vid from about 6 months ago.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....F-17DF48C8C1A0

 

UMMMM all I wish is that Scott (enthalapy) was here to better explain why this is completely unreasonable. For $500 his ecus are direct plug and play and make upto 600HP as well, and it does the same thing, (accept NO chopping of the wiring harness). You guys can feel free to do what you want.

Abel racing just found an easy NICHE to work around with the DSM's, to me that $600 in labor isn't cost effective and the consumer suffers at those prices, and I hate the idea of mutilating the wiring harness and not using Nismo or Nissan sensors.
The only concept I am hearing with the whole DSM swapping is that Nissan (eccs) is bad, the knock sensor capabilities aren't there. That is "ALL" false misguided and misrepresented info.
It is just sounding like a sales pitch for those that are ignorant on Nissan tuning.

 

your somewhat right about scotts ecu's, and yes he is am awesome explorer of the ka, i am glad the nissan community has him. but to say this swap is "completely unreasonable" is wrong. there are no 2 engines alike, so he will burn a new program for the ecu, and sometimes you have to clean it up on a dyno with safc or something.and when you want to make more power does he have to make a new program for it? like i said i won't dog scott cause he is badass and yes they are learning more and more with the reprogramming. dave at deatschwerks and him have worked together ( don't know to what extent ) and he also is a good friend of mine. so i am fairly up to date with what is happening with his ecu's. all it is is another way of doing things. its not jdm and it is not nissan but neither is haltech or aem etc.. it is another way to make power reliably. i can care less who uses it i just know from experiance it works.

why are you so against this? who cares if it isn't nismo/nissan it gets the job done regardless.

 

I'm not against it and I'm not for it either, I play devils advocate.
The point is you need the DSM hardware that alone will cost you $200 for sensors and ecu (USED). (Not including a Mitsubishi Turbo, not that it really matters either, since you can pull turbo's from Volvo's, and SAABS for even cheaper) Then an install of the components and a reprogram to run with some of the existing Nissan sensors for $600? So yeah in the process of you thinking it's cost effective it only costed more money, $800 about just to format the the DSM to work with some Nissan compliant parts and the engine. ( I havent even included the price for turbo and install yet). Not to say that I couldn't do the install myself, but when you deal with the typical class of people that can't do these installs, in my mind it is a RIP off, especially since Enthalapy is finding better alternative methods to Nissan ECCS at an affordable price for (DIRECT PLUG and PLAY) use.
My whole point was that this post started that it was an inexpensive alternative, that is FALSE, and to procure such a statement is bogus. I'm not against the use of DSM hybrid KA's, I think it is a way to explore new ideas. But it won't be explored at the expense of my own pocket either, that is as if I am paying for the shops free Reaserch and Developement, and that wont happen.
The fact is Nissan technology is getting better, and more and more people are becoming intune to it's technology, so why be counterproductive and go against the grain of Nissan technology at the same time. Like I said I am speaking from both ends of the spectrum, I am in LIMBO.

 

ok i don't really think you understand what happens with this or maybe i am not explaining very well.

first off you can't include the price of a turbo setup and install because that isn't what we are discussing that is another can of worms.

2nd.i went to a local junkyard last week and bought everything i needed for my girlfriends car here is a price break down. everything is sold as is
ecu $25.00
wireharness $10.00
coil packs $15.00
mpi relay $2.00 ( i don't think he knew what it was )
resistor box $5.00
CAS $20.00
3 " gm mass air meter $25.00 ( a 1g turbo maf would be the same price )
ignition transistor $0.00( it was attached the wireharness)
injectors don't matter cause they are about the same price for dsm injectors through Forced Performance as they are for side feed injectors from Deatschwerks. and yes Enthalpy can tune ecu's for those injectors.

$102.00

now 600 for the wireharness mod and CAS from Abel.

that is $702 total

now there is no reprogramming of anything with this. you plug into the sensors like you would any other wireharness nothing fancy. you would only have to rewire your gauge cluster 4-6 splices i don't remember. and ALL factory gauges work. i am electronically challenged ( ask anyone who knows me )and i did it.

if you use the stock 1g turbo maf it is almost plug and play the only thing is gauge cluster but i bet that could be taken care of here. so then it would be a direct plug and play. there would be 0 tuning cause the ecu is allready tuned.it is made for boost unlike the nissan ecu which is changing i know.

let me ask this question. when you want to up the boost with the enthalpy ecu do you have to send off for a new chip or send the ecu off for reprogramming and how much does this cost? then do you still have to go to the dyno and check a/f ? and possibly have to tweak it a touch to match your setup?


how do you see if it is knocking? i use a 25 dollar palm pilot and a 10 dollar cable with free software to watch/ log everything my ecu see's. can you do that with nissan ecu?

not to mention you are saying my friends are ripping people off. which is BS. how many people with enthalpy tunes are mking 380 on a stock block and very soon i will be in the 400's for how long or how far i don't know. if i remember correctly the stock block record is 432 whp ( stock longblock and intake ) and i am trying to break that with this rip off setup.

what is the highest hp that is known with his ecu and stock block, because i honestly don't know.

 

Actually I can, and I didn't. All shops charge different prices. But Abel racing obviously want's to do the turbo install as well since they would of done us people a favor in the ECU install....Right?
It's all a sales pitch. This thread is also called Turbo a 240 using a Mitsubishi?????????????? So break down the whole cost for me while you are at it. They may be your friends, but there not mine. Business is Business, and NO I am not being a as$hole about it either.

You got lucky not all wrecking yards charge the same, and once people start understanding DSM swapping it will only get more expensive.



The fact is the Nissan technology is changing and getting better, I have a few friends that are messing with some rom emulators, that would literally only cost $30 and the same features as the DSM. So once it gets better and cheaper why waste my time with a DSM? Your still technically tuning the DSM to work woth Nissan gauges.

Scott claims it is a one time tune with matched A/F ratio's as long as you don't change the internal or turbo modifications, and I have seen people make those HP numbers without making changes. The programs enthalapy burns are literally designed around the turbo's, thats why he asks what kind you have when he burns the program. So as a reminder get a good turbo that spools well and makes bigg numbers, cause that is what you are going to get with his tune. It doesn't matter weither it is DSM or Nissan ECCS I don't know anyone that will boost and NOT take it into a dyno tune. It's kinda like an OXIMORON, (like eeeh I got this wicked tight DSM set up on my Nissan it's so super tight indostructo YO, that I don't need a dyno tune YO).....LOL

So I guess I will need to call Abel racing for the dyno tune as well when I crank up the boost. How much will that cost me? It is pertinent to this thread as well.


No way to work around that, you have to get an SAFC. They are so dirt cheap now I have seen them for under $100 on ebay used for generation one models. Fact is Enthalapy tuned ECU and an SAFC is still cheaper than your $702 total.


Well maybe I over exagurated that statement a tid bit didn't mean to offend you or Abel Racing.

Thats funny I thought you were a member of KA-t.org. I'm shure you have seen a few, no need to B.S.

I couldn't give you the answer to that if I wanted to there is ALWAYS some other guy out there beating some one elses dyno record. The average person that want's a turbo setup only wants the one time convenient tune anyways especially for streetable purposes after 300HP the 240sx isn't very streetable. So really it is just what is more cost effective for that individual. I'm not the type of guy that is out to break other peoples dyno records or 1/4mile times, I just want a car that is a daily driver, so why do I care about DSM's, when I can get a comfortable one time ecu program and save some money. the enthalapy tune is the most cost effective and beneficial, even if you were to purchase an SAFC. There are advantages and disadvantages to any ecu weither it be ECCS or DSM, it's what you prefer. Like I said before I am in Limbo, and I defenitely wont hype up a shop like Abel racing I just see a sales ploy here.

 

hmmm...

Are you running an enthalpy ROM tune on your ECU BigVinnie? I bet it does a lot for that intake mod you got there. I mean this completely makes you qualified to argue on a topic you obviously know nothing about.

You're like one of those master keyboard tuners that argues that an A/F gauge connected to the stock narrowband o2 sensor is accurate.

The two fastest 240s in the OKC area (including KAs, RBs, and SRs) are running this setup. But maybe you're right... maybe being innovative and trying something new (that works great) is just a sales pitch.

Then don't.