l2aine

Been reading up on threads about rebuilding, swaps, KA-T's, etc. and I'm debating on my next move. My engine's coming up on 175k miles and it always leaves it's signature in the form of oil spots everywhere I go... so it might be time soon for some major engine work. Problem here is, I'm caught between the usual choices:

1) Refresher: Rebuild the KA24DE I have. I've seen rebuild kits for about $400-500 (OEM specs, with all gaskets, pistons and rings, all bearings, no timing kit/oil pump). If I do go this route, I'd probably rebuild the engine myself (with the aid of an FSM of course). QUESTIONS: I've never rebuilt an entire engine before, but I am mechanically inclined to do so. Any special tools I'd need, and what's the average down time I'll have without the car while I rebuild the whole thing? Do I need to pull the engine/tranny out of the car, or can it be done inside?

2) Street Legal: Replace the KA24DE with a newer, lower mileage KA24DE. I've seen prices for used KA24DE's w/tranny for around $300-$400. However, even 97-98 year engines I see for sale are already in the 100-110k mile range. I don't have access to an engine lift, so I'd probably have to pay someone to install it. QUESTIONS: What's the average charge for a simple swap? Anyone know any good places in the SoCal Los Angeles 626/909 area? Are rebuilt engines really "just as good as new"?

3) Go Go Go: Dump the KA in favor of an SR20DET. I've read the pros/cons of both CA and RB engines, but my last car was SR powered (95 SE-R) and I really like the engine a lot (let alone turbo'd). The downside to this option other than cost (compared to the other two options) is the smog-legal issue. I live in California. I'm deprived of boost. QUESTIONS: What about an SR20DE, but RWD? Would that sneak through all the legal crap since the SR20DE was sold legally in California (in SE-R's)? Dollar for dollar, is a stock SR20DET the better choice than boosting a KA24DE (dollar for dollar, meaning cost of SR20DET swap = cost of KA24DE rebuild and turbo kit)?

ixcocoyxi

okay.. i have an answer to #1

special tools
- ring compressor (for piston rings)
- torque wrench
- feeler guage
- timing light
- breaker bar/cheater bar

if sending in your block to bore out
- 12 point socket (?? size) to remove flywheel
- loctite (for bolts you removed from flywheel)

- *cherry picker (to replace engine)
- *engine stand

*it'd be best to get a cherry picker w/engine stand to work on putting stuff back together and installation a bit easier

.. thats about it off the top of my head..

down time
my first time removing engine and replace > 5 days max
thats with sending the head to get rebuilt and cylinders bored
didnt have to remove tranny

it'll be alot easier if you pulled out the whole thing and work on an engine stand if you could get your hands on one..

best of luck to ya!

- i think i may have forgotten some stuff.. but yeah..
oh! and have another person with you.. it'll help out alot too

WilloW

I don't recommend doing it at home if you're the first timer and the only car you've got, might take alot longer than expected. To add to the above IIRC, the block should be checked for cracks, irregularities, and warping. I had the same dilema a while back, I couldn't decide which way to go. I ultimately decided to go SR, and before the flaming start my dream is a KAT. My reasons to go SR is because building a KAT would end up costing $5K+, while getting an S14 SR20DET clip would only cost me $3-3200. My goal for power is only to have 300whp, so I'm pretty damn sure an S14 SR swap and an extra $2k would get me there. As for the being legal in CA, if I ever get busted I'm just going to pay off the ticket and take the $300 something loss and not go to the state ref. I don't go to street races so my odds of having my hood poped is pretty low. Someday i will have my KAT, but for now I'll just go with whatever my wallet could affford, I might just start ripping the KA apart and rebuild it for boost after I get the SR in (I'm dreaming). Good luck man.

l2aine

Yeah the "hood popping" issue isn't big with me these days - I've been through my share of street racing, but nowadays I save it for the track and I drive like a grandma on public roads... therefore the SR swap is a viable option now.

Anyone have a rough estimate of what it would cost if I were to just have a shop rebuild the KA for me? Would it be better if I bought the rebuild kit on my own, or have them take care of the whole thing?

If it were up to me I'd want to do the work all myself, but I overlooked the part about checking the block for any cracks, warpage, etc. That would involve sonic testing? I'm not too familiar with that process

-HyJynX-

I did a long post...and it got deleted =/ God damn it...I will do my best to repeat what was in it.

First off, your in a big hole Raine...
Btw what kind of HP are you shooting for in the long run? And its still ganna be ur daily driver right? and how much do you have to do this, or are you just brainstorming?

1)I wouldnt go this route since you have never done a full engine rebuild before. Neither have I, but I have seen how much time and how careful you have to be, even with a FSM. If I were you, I would rather not do it yourself and pay a shop to do it...or get someone that really knows there ish bout rebuilding engines and get him to help ya out.
2)I would go this route...unless you are REALLY itching to go turbo for that extra hp. Ok, the average cost for a swap I would think is 600-800 for the install. Im just throwing out numbers. I know a friend that works at a shop that specializes on datsuns and nissans, I will ask him how much a engine swap will cost and how much a full rebuild costs. Unless you trust me and mr friend Aaron, we can do it for pretty cheap. Me and him have done a few swaps (KAs and SRs)
3)If its ganna be your daily driver, which im sure it is...I would be a lil cautious going this route. Its illegal even if you decide to go SR20DE...its a JDM engine and the engine was never produced for that car in the US.

I will do a lil number crunching for ya...
SR: 2500, 600 for lil goodies you need. Can cost you from 3100-4000...matters on if YOU wanna do the swap or pay a shop to do it. In the out some you will be looking at 185-190HP at the wheels
KAT: Rebuild kit, 800-1k, Turbo kit, put it together your self, 3800(everything included) This can cost you anywhere from 4k with out a rebuild(stronger internals) to 5k with a rebuild. With out a rebuild you can see around 230hp at the wheels and with a rebuild im sure you can see 280.

Its all up to you...just make sure to have fun which ever way you go

WilloW

Flatlander Racing, this should give you a good reference of how much it cost for a short block rebuilt. browse their site for an estimate of how much for a rebuilt kit (you can find them cheaper.) If you're going the swap route, I would recommend doing it yourself. It's a good learning experience, not to mention cheaper than paying anything between $1k-1500 for someone else to do it.

l2aine

yeah I got some of my prices from Flatlander.

As for my target, I'm thinking of about +/- 200hp at the wheel, but the KA-T option you mentioned (stock internals) at about 230hp looks pretty attractive now. As for budget, I have about $1200 in the bank but I'm not in that of a rush yet (I have about 13k miles to go before I hit the 175 mark) but I'm the type to plan ahead on big projects so I'm starting now.

It is going to be my daily, but as far as down time goes I do have access to my dads old car (93 Celica) that I can use while the 240 is being worked on.

Jynx if you could get me the total prices (basically out the door ready to go) for the rebuild and/or KA swap, I'd really appreciate it. Although I do stand behind the SR motor from previous experience, the concept of boosting a 2.4L as opposed to a 2.0L sounds more to my liking...

...as for piecing a turbo kit on my own, is that 230hp mark you mentioned with or without an IC?

Thanks for the input so far... this is one of the bigger decisions I'm going to be making and I want to be 100% sure of what I choose to do

-HyJynX-

Ill try to get ahold of my friend that works at the shop to see what the usual price is on a rebuild an a KA swap.

The 230hp is with a FMIC...included in the price.
Putting together your own turbo kit might save you a couple hundred bucks or more, just make sure you get all the stuff needed and the right application for the engine. Or searcha round the net for some turbo kits...

drnovascotia

I found a cheap KA with 120K for $100, so i'm gonna try and rip it apart and rebuilt it. After finally getting a hard copy of the FSM and reading it, I don't think it's as easy as it looks, mainly keeping track of all 10000 parts! But to be different than the sr's and say you rebuilt your own engine to me is awesome, and then to KAT would be sweet. I'm looking into a stock rebuild with a thicker head gasket and maybe rods, if I go KAT I'll only want 6-9 psi, any more and you'd have to build the engine a lot more, which gets extremly pricey. 2.4L Iron block sounds better to me than 2.0L and aluminum block, heh. But not to get into a which one is better, it's all in what you want to do. You'll need a lot of tools and torue wrench and tools to put the rings on and such, go over the FSM and see if you have or can get access.

Ulitmately the sr is popular because no rebuild is necessary, and it's lower miles and setup turbo'd p to like 16psi. Nothing wrong with going that route

Ever think about Ca18? only 175hp stock, but you can get 230 to the wheels with anouther 1-2K, i'm actually looking into it. cheaper and different than the SR as well, and already turbo'd.

Dont you get clips for cheap in Cali?

Thats what I think.

Dr.

-HyJynX-

Only bad thing about going CA is they are almost usually HIGH mileage, so its the same thing as the KA but its turboed. You can find a full clip for 1500 easily. Upgrade the turbo and fuel injectors and you will be set. Iron block, the internals can hold 350hp no prob. But its all up to you bro And the clips arent cheaper here...They are the same price as all you guys get em, but we dont have to pay shipping and sometimes we can bargain people down

drnovascotia

I figured being on that coast you'd get them for a lot cheaper. CA's aren't like "40k" like Sr's are advertised, but i'd do a CA with 70K. building the KA is a lot more work than most are willing to do, we'll see once I try it, lol.

Dr.

-HyJynX-

Yea, the KA is a lot of work...but I think the outcome will be SO worth it!
I dont really trust the miles that is said on the odd of the engine..You never really know because someone can change it SO easily.

drnovascotia

How do you know if the KA is worth it? I think potentially it would be, absolutly. And I don't like the idea of getting any used engine, whether it's SR or CA Or RB, becase you never know what idiot redlined the **** out of their car and didn't take care of it. If I pick up this engine in NH next week i'm gonna start the rebuild process, can't wait. There are a couple things I don't like about kat, mainly getting the ECU Chipped, several hundreds of dollars and a long turn around time from JWT. Thats the downside of the KA and upside of SR and CA, already setup out of the box. but hey, I like being different, upgrading the rods, pistsons, cams and hg would definately be a good start for the engine. 200hp NA would be a good place to start!

Dr.