springs or coilovers?
 

i have been looking and talking around about some setups to do for this my dilema is i want it to be stiff but the best spring that is stiff is the eibach i belive..well i was told coilovers will be stiffer like my brother on his integra has dropzone coilovers and his car is stiff but his firend with a 240 has dropzone springs and its just not as stiff as he would have liked he said..Well to the point now what should i go with a coilover like the dropzone or the aerospeed or should i go with a spring like the dropzone ones i really need help with this as i dont know much about differnt setups thanks - Brad Cooch

Re: springs or coilovers?
 

I think Ground Control makes coil over with no shocks for the 240'S ,are you just looking for coil over with no shocks only?

yea the ones with no shocks..im too poor for the others lol - Brad

Re: springs or coilovers?
 

Not to be mean to your brother or his friend, but Dropzone suspension is crap. Dropzone coilovers are crap, Dropzone springs are crap, I bet they both bought Dropzone because they sell for low $ on Ebay.

Arospeed isn't any much better. Dropzone, Arospeed, R-1, etc. did you notice that a lot of these companies so-called "performance coilover sleeve kits" all look the same except for the color? They're generic, that's why.

The only legit "coilover sleeve" that works with our cars is Ground Control, and they use real Eibach springs in their kits. Stiffness is a matter of ordering the right spring rate for your application.

Now then, before I type any more - what is your application? (Why do you need stiff springs)?

they are for a 93 240sx...now as saying they are crap i dont see why they are that bad its for someone on a budget that doesnt want to spend on suspension that is worth more then their whole car ground control i have looked into those but they are more money and my brothers friend has them and said both cars feel just as good so paying that much more wasnt really an option..as for why i need them stiff is well i dont know about you but i dont like a car that is floaty kinda like mine is right now- Brad

i would jus get tein/eibach or any set of good springs, i would never get the coilover sleeves, i agree with raine, those things are crap. your friends and brothers may say one thing, but we've got an entire 240 community that will disagree with them. you want performance, get a set of the eibach pro kit, but thats jus my opinion

well i was looking at the tein s-tech springs cause i like that its not too low still with a clean look to it?...wil i need to do a chamber kit for only like a 1.5" drop front and 1.2" rear? thanks again for all the help - Brad

Check Tanabe springs they are really good quality and look good too,H&R is a good option too but as I say Ground Control make one of the best Coil Over with no shocks ,stick with them you are not gonna regreet it :naughty:

yea. I just got my tein S-tech from ebay for 109.99. should be cheap enough for you right?

For the budget-minded, you're better off going S-Tech over some cheapo brand "coilover sleeve". Good choice, BTW :thumb: and nice price too.

jus get alignment done afterwards to correct any other settings that might be off, but i believe camber should be fine

i think im going s- tech then thanks for the help - Brad

actually you will need to get a camber kit. I refer you to jackyliem's thread and my replies:

http://www.club240.com/forums/showth...threadid=18154

If you can't fork out the $ right away for a proper front and rear camber kit, the best you can do right now is to get an alignment so that they can at least adjust your toe settings. This way you won't wear down the tires as quickly compared to no alignment at all, and it will give you ample time to save up some $ for a camber setup later.

well money is no issue really its just pushing back the new engine a month or two but i think my engine is now totaly dead so i might just have to get the engine along with the springs in a month or two..its not too big of a problem since im 15 and only have a permit i just wanted them before spring when autoX and drag start thanks for all the help guys - Brad

damn, I wish money wasn't an issue when I was 15

LOL Seriously...

Bank of Parents.

well i have had alot saved up and my parents said they would spend 3k on a car so i bought a car that was 1500$ so the rest was mine. but i am getting a job here soon i have applications in so i will have even more then. but other then the rest of the money they gave me they wont shell out another dime i have to buy it all myself - Brad

Wow, a lot of young guys are getting 240s.

its just means more parts cars to me !!!

it's "in" lol. It's because there isn't a damn thing out there thats better.<---that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Anyway,tell me how it goes with whatever you get. My suspension is about to give out on me soon, so I'm 1 step behind you!

Funny thing is, all these kids buying 240's think they drive as easy as some Honda... then the rain comes or they go too hot into a turn and BANG.

Junkyard it.

i am trying to avoid that part. And would never be a civic owner :p I am trying my best to learn what I can about the car...

EDIT:Sorry for the "highjacking", just responding. :thumb:

Correction LandHo, more parts for us, lol.

Yes sorry when the newbs crash we raid the carcases like vultures!!

At least we don't have to do anything to keep them "converted Honda people" away... just let them spend on a RWD, wait for them to crash on their own, and woohoo. Stuffs for us.

Exactly!

well you see even being a new driver i respect it being rwd and seeing how alot of new people wrap them around poles so i am still kinda afraid of the rwd and all but not too bad with the clutch int he rain -Brad

If you seriously mean all of that, then no worries brother - you're on the correct path.

Anyone thinking of getting the tein super drift? if so let me know how it is. thanks

Super Drift is basically a mix of Flex and the old HE's - Flex casing, Flex paint job, Flex pillow mounts, Flex piston rod - but with the HE springs and valving specs. Tein discontinued the HE in favor of the new "Super Drift" because with the new changes, they can offer the EDFC to work with the new drift coilovers. So in the end, you still have HE's with just green paint and the ability to work with EDFC.

IMO HE's btw are awesome... until you drive daily with them. Flex are pretty good for both daily and hard driving... and EDFC is just fun to use. :D

yea i really want flex! i need a job =0( all my friends are telling me to get groundcontrol with KYB

Okay

1.) punch all your friends in the face ground control haha meh!

2.) get new friends.

3.) Get a job.

4.) Get coilovers.

In that order.

LMAO :laugh:

I own a few 240's and im not old enough yet to drive by myself...so i drive with parents....but even tho i dont know how the car handle i am not new to RWD.. my dad previously owned an supercharged mr2 and the thing was gutless...but iunno if i would be a different feel of a 240... and im not bad with the cluth...hope i dont get wrapped up around a pole.....Q?....if the car has the engine on the back and is a RWD drive would it handle differ from a car that has the motor on the front?
:dunno:

Yes, i belive it does affect it because you have to figure the engine is right over the rear wheels pretty much so the back end porbally wont want to kick around as much..better weight distribution i think - Brad

there's +/- to every layout... you get good traction in the rear with the engine in the back (ala Porsche) but when you're turning, all that weight in the back will want to swing around faster. Usually you'll see a staggered setup on a mid or rear engine, rwd vehicle, but this time it's not for looks - it's to keep the back end planted to the ground :thumb:

Yes they would handle different. It like comparing an FF to a RWD completely.

MR will want to oversteer alot. They have a great launch because all the weight is on the tires. Fun cars though. Weight transfers will be alot more "fierce" since all the weight is behind you.

Im going to be as much tecnical as I can be with u on this :

There are two major characteristics of a drivetrain that impacts the performance of a car: the engine placement and the driving wheels location. The engine placement is a big factor to determine the moment of inertia and the weight distribution of car because many other mechanical/electrical components of a car are usually located close to the engine. The driving wheels location determines which wheels the transmission to send the engine-generated torque to. Due to weight transfer, you will soon find out that driving wheels location is a very important factor in car handling.



For simplicity purposes, car nuts classified different engine placements into three types: front-engined, mid-engined and rear-engined. Front-engined cars have their engine placed in front of the passenger seats. Mid-engined cars have their engine placed behind the passenger seats but in front of the rear driving axle. Rear-engined cars have their engine placed behind the rear driving axle. There is also a subclass of front-engined cars called front-mid-engined. In this subclass, the engine is behind the front drving axle but in front of the passenger seats. An example is the Nissan 350Z .

I will give you examples of cars that represents the seven common drivetrain layouts.



1. Front Engine, Front Wheel Drive (FF)

This is most common drivetrain layout. It is used for all the low cost economy car like Nissan Sentra/Altima,Toyota Camry/Corolla, Honda Civic/Accord, Mazda Protege/Millenium, etc.
FF cars are more front heavy. It can counteract with the understeer characteristics exhibited by front wheel drive cars. The overall effect is that it has slight understeer in all acceleration situations. This actually makes the car more stable in city driving.
The main reason for building FF cars is that it is cheaper to build. Steering, engine, transmission, wheels and so on are all very close by, there is no need to build long axles to transmit the engine power to the other end of the car.

2.Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive (FR)

This is most common drivetrain layout for luxury sedans and low end sports car. Examples are Nissan 350Z ,240SX, Mercedes sedans, BMW sedans, Mazda Miata, Honda S2000 etc..One of the characteristics of these cars is that they usually have a almost neutral weight distribution due to the driving axle that traverses from the front to the rear.
Since the weight distribution is neutral, to attain higher acceleration potential, the car needs to be RWD or AWD (see the bottom for math-oriented people). For not powerful enough engines in passenger cars, RWD is good enough to exploit the potential.
RWD cars exhibit oversteer under mild acceleration and understeer under heavey acceleration. The oversteer characteristic allows an RWD car to accelerate after exits from the apex and hence attain higher speed when it enters the straight. For details, please refer to the Understeer and Oversteer section and the Cornering Line section.

2.(b)Front-mid-engined car like the Nissan 350Z or S2000 can turn faster than normal FR cars because it has a smaller moment of inertia.

3. Mid Engine, Rear Wheel Drive (MR)

This drivetrain layout is usually employed by high end sports car and most of the formula one race cars. Notable examples are Porsche Boxster, Ferrari Modena.
Mid-engined is the configuration that has the lowest moment of inertia and hence it turns the fastest.
Weight Distribution is a little bit biased to the rear and hence more prone to oversteer under mild acceleration.

4.Rear Engine, Rear Wheel Drive (RR)

This is one of the rare drivetrain layouts. Notable examples are Porsche 911 Carrera and the original Volkswagen Beetle.
Rear-engined cars are similar to mid-engined cars but they have higher moment of inertia and are even more prone to oversteer under mild acceleration.

5. Front Engine, All Wheel Drive (FA)

There are two types of cars that employ this drivetrain layout. The first type includes cars that want to provide traction on all four tires such that you can move the car around in snow or unfavorable terrain. Examples are Subarus, Audis, BMW 330xi. The second type includes high power sports car. Examples are Nissan Skyline GTR, Mistubishi Lancer Evolution and so on.
For high power sports cars, the reason for AWD is to exploit all the traction of the four tires to attain the greatest acceleration possible (see bottom for the gory math details).
Most AWD cars are rear biased in which they allocate more torque to the rear than the front. Therefore they all have mild oversteer under mild acceleration.

6.Mid Engine, All Wheel Drive (MA)

MA car was built in the same spirit as FA cars but the mid engine configuration reduces moment of inertia and hence makes the car turn more quickly. An example is Lamborghini Murcielago.

7. Rear Engine, All Wheel Drive (RA)

RA cars are an extension of RR cars. They take advantage of the AWD to exploit full acceleration potential. An example is Porsche 911 Carrera 4.


Sorry bout the long post I was really bored! :rolleyes:

Did you copy and paste? Where are the math details, lol. Good info.

Thanks Guys:thumb: